Marks & Spencers bra fittings and trans women - they've missed the point

Very unobservant - so any assertion that they can't tell the difference between a biological woman and a TiF can be reliably ignored.

The details for the link are in the top right hand corner. You're not observant are you.

All the anime gifs. And always anime. You're all a cliche. But here: (someone already posted the first UK one). Unlabeled/named one is Canada.

There are two safeguarding situations to consider with bra fitting scenarios and they are not symmetrical.

One is about non-consensual touching. Such as a male person potentially having an unconsenting female person touch them or in very close proximity to them.

The other is causing a female person distress through having someone with male body cues (either from being a male person or from testosterone intake or surgery) touching them or in very close proximity to their breasts.

Through discussing this with female people who have made those decisions to have those body changes, many of them are very aware that their presence in such a situation may cause another woman distress. I don’t believe they would choose to put another woman in that position.

So, you tell me, “Do they count when people say it should only be biological females fitting bras?”

Should they be having to touch a male person without their freely given consent?

Should they be put in a position where they might cause another female distress?

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about a person who has had female to male surgery and identifies as male fitting a bra? Do they count when people say it should only be biological females fitting bras?

That figure is inaccurate the question was too confusing for people unfamiliar with the language of gender ideology and for whom English is not their first language which is why the ONS downgraded that set of statistics.
The number of transwomen is believed to be less than 0.1% we won't get a accurate picture until the next census and only then if they fix the question.
The graph i posted use the higher rate of transwomen which the census found of 0.2% transwomen as can be found on the ONS websites (as qualified ie accepted as inaccurate) if we used the most likely figure of less than 0.1% the rate of sexual offending by transwomen would be closer to 11 times that of men who identify as men.
May I strongly suggest that you spend some time on both the ONS and MOJ websites including looking up the types of sexual offenses that transwomen commit as they are some of the most serious and often involve gratuitous violence.
I can assure you that it will make you see why women don't want any man especially not trans identifying men anywhere near our single sex spaces and services

The link you posted has the numbers that correspond with the chart. I am not sure what you are misunderstanding. It is in the link you posted how many male people identified as female on the census and that is the same number used on the chart.

Then they should look up an online tutorial on how to measure yourself for a bra and measure themselves and buy a bra in their size off the rail, no need for any woman to measure them ever.
More to the point men should not be buying womens bras as they are not designed for the male body (wider back and shoulders) even if that man has gynocomastia (moobs) from taking cross sex hormones or has breast implants.
What men who need bras should really do is set up their own lingerie range and shops with other men who need bras doing the fitting then the men wont need to worry about not getting a bra that fits

the link i put is for trans peaple in the uk and whear i quoted from in my coment 0.5% of adults aged 16 and over. that part 🤗

I have no idea what you are saying. Sorry.

No female person should be made to fit a bra for a male person. Or teach them how to wear one. Or teach them how to pick one. No employer should put a female in that position where they have to do this.

If a male person needs that service, that male service should seek specialised assistance.

yea its up to consent like your saying its just peaple are worried that they wont be able to get one becose they cant get them fitted its like saying to a person who doesn't know what shoe size they are That they can buy a pair but the shoe shop teach them how to tie their shoes or tell them what shoe size they are
do you get what im saying

Yes the ONS and MOJ are official government organisations that would face criminal charges under foi laws for knowingly falsifing data. Gires is a biased pro trans group and can and do falsify data all the time

The sources for the chart is on the chart.

oh sorry have i mised some thing im looking at difrent things

Sure. Has anyone on the thread said that a male person should not be allowed to purchase a bra? I haven’t seen that said on this thread.

However, no female person should have to fit a male person for a bra, just as she should not have to accept a male person fitting her for a bra.

You're ignoring the data from the MOJ and ONS in favour of information from GIRES?

Oh dear...

OK from looking at I'm just doing a little bit of thinking from https://www.gires.org.uk/information-on-prevalence-incidence-and-monitoring/ saying that "“Is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?”

• 45.7 million (94.0% of the population aged 16 years and over) answered the question.
• 45.4 million (93.5%) answered “Yes” and 262,000 (0.5%) answered “No”.
• 2.9 million (6.0%) did not answer the question.

The image has the sources listed right there on the graphic.

No you should be able to look it up yourself women aren't here to do your research for you.
Its simple just go to the gov website look up crime statistics and scroll down to any year and look up then do the maths with the number of transwomen sex offenders per million and then do the same for men and women (the women's figures are unreliable as they include men who have GRCs and even 1 man makes a huge statistical difference when there are so few women sex offenders)

Links are literally on the image....

You know, the bit where it says 'Derived from:'?

👏

you shuld be able to provide your own link to whear you got it from when your present data you need to be able to prove it

No one is stopping anyone buying a bra but I can see how a female bra fitter may be uncomfortable fitting someone other than a biological women.

He may need a bra.

However he has no right at all to rock up to M&S with the expectation that he will be allowed into the M&S fitting room area or that any of the M&S female staff must provide a service.

There aren't any male bra fitters. I think you've spotted a gap in the market!