My 8 year old is out of control

she’ll constantly kick her sister saying I won’t stop until I get food.

Honestly, im not kidding, you need to look for courses to learn how to safely restrain her before she seriously hurts her sister. You seem powerless to stop her - you need to physically stop her. She is 8. Can you create a safe,comfortable place with a door you can lock her to allow her to calm down if its got to where she is so determined to hurt another child?

She has to learn she will be stopped from hurting others

When she hits you or sibling have you tried just turning and silently walking out the room?

It takes quite a bit of practise esp if they follow you. Iv gone into the garden, then walked back in. Kept of moving and ignored completely.

Lock on older dc room to keep her out if she is prone to trashing things.

I was a horrendous 8 year old, my mum and I had awful run ins. Towards the end of secondary school I was diagnosed with a manageable health issue. Mightnt be the same in your case but no harm taking a step back to try get a sense of the whole picture

Why are you rewarding such terrible behaviour?

I have adhd kids. We have firm boundries and set rules and set consequences (though appreciate this may not work with pda) - actually written on a board in the kitchen, agreed when everyone was calmish.
Even if consequences mean nothing to her keep doing them. Firm and consistent, even though it's draining and you want to scream.
I disengage at times as showing my attention when they are badly behaved causes even more bad behaviour. So high screaming - I say when you have stopped come and get me and we can do x,y,z put on noise cancelling headphones and carry on with household tasks. Not ideal with neighbours but has seemed to curb it

I actually agree with you but OP has a violent, demanding daughter. If she (possibly) finds it easier to take her out to get through the day who can blame her?
I'm not saying it's the right or wrong thing to do but I was responding to another poster who had decided it was 'telling' that OP took her daughter out rather than.......do what?
OP sounds worn out with it all and doesn't need a snipey poster telling her that taking her child out is the root cause of all her problems.

If a healthy well nourished child was hitting me demanding food & screaming I'd give them them nothing until they stopped. If they screamed again I'd wait another hour.

Children who don't do well with being told no, its often because they've had what they want/been placated quite a lot. Even years earlier as a younger child. And it then takes months or even years of consistently imposing consequences etc to undo the bad habits.

I would tread carefully and hold back on the criticism. She is obviously very upset about something or struggling with something. I would observe and listen for awhile. There may be a problem you aren't yet aware of

OP some tips from me on this from life with DD16. I know this is hard but you need to acknowledge her “I understand you are angry/upset but…” also more hugs (I know they often won’t unless they initiate) but try…ask for one. Sports/drama clubs, Tennis coaching in the holidays DD loved and it’s a bit of respite for a few hours, not too noisy either being outside and a new skill brings the confidence. The indoor spaces with loads of kids used to really
trigger my DD.

Brace yourself for puberty, I found DD16 really struggled to adjust to the changes in her body and the demands periods bring. Period pants like modibodi were and still are a godsend.

This sounds very tough and it's very important that you have space to talk about it freely and honestly so people jumping on you for not doing or explaining everything perfectly is not on. It sounds like you're at a total loss and the cumulative effect is damaging family relationships.

I don't have any advice as I'm not in the situation but please do remember to tell her you love her.

I’m adding my voice to PDA. I advise joining the fb group another poster signposted as you’ll get lots of support and advice there.
You could also look into play therapy- it could help your daughter process any underlying issues. Play therapy had a dramatic effect on my child after about 3 months.
Ignore the nasty poster- they have no idea.

Sadly not many clubs will accept such a badly behaved child, as she will upset the other children and make the adults' lives hell, as she is doing at home.
So sorry OP. What a horrible situation for you and your lovely first daughter.

Have a look at Supernanny show (find in youtube) she had a child exactly like this. I have SEN background and not every child/behaviour needs a label.... the episode is really helpful.

I have been here. DS2 age 7 is similar and DS1 now age 16 was similar when he was younger. They are both diagnosed ADHD. So am I - usually at least one parent also has it, any indication whether that might be the case in your family?

I am a bit short on time but will come back. I learnt a lot since having DS1, but even though I did many many many things wrong with DS1, he really did just grow out of a lot of the worst behaviours. DS2 has a more obviously challenging profile and doesn't mask at school, so that plus the family history means that he got a diagnosis much sooner.

I would say with the GP, can you ask for a second opinion or look whether there is a self referral option to CAMHS. Since the GP is not the one doing the assessment, I don't see why they need to have the school evidence, especially since it's the middle of the summer holidays (if you're in England) so presumably, it will take a while for her new teacher to get to know her. You can also look into charities which may support such as ADHD UK.

I’d be putting her in a holiday club to give my
other child a break

I will say, mum refused to recognise that she had a different attachment to this child though, which is what stalled a lot of the work.

This is incredibly difficult, and lots of good suggestions re family support because it can be helpful to have an outside perspective.
I’ve worked with a fair few children like this , families are exhausted , children are internally exhausted and angry and sad. One particular girl comes to mind who used to be so aggressive at home, she was very much demonised at home though, mum had a very different attachment to her and always had since birth as ND children can sometimes display different attachment behaviours which don’t always fit into ‘attachment styles’. So this girl was often behaving aggressively to end up making it so that siblings had to split off with dad and she had mum to herself at home. anyway that may not be helpful at all because there’s so much nuance and extra information none of us will know, that family support seems like the first step

This is heartbreaking. But also absolutely classic neurodivergent female experience. They understand social norms enough to mask behaviour at school to fit in. But they are nowhere near socially or emotionally mature enough to manage friendships. Age 8-10 is common for things to fall apart with PDA girls, usually a bit older in boys. Basically when social demands exceed their masking/coping abilities.

The behaviour you are seeing at home is probably a combination of a massive change in routine (as fundamentally, these kids are autistic) plus a release of a school year worth of masking. She drops the mask around you guys and you get all the nervous system dysregulation.

I would take PDA very seriously. Chances are she will just stop being able to mask at some point and it will get much, much harder to get her into school. If primary school is an issue, secondary school has the potential to be impossible.

Frankly, how much money do you have access to? If funds were unlimited I’d get her diagnosed by someone that specialises in autism in girls. I’d also get an OT assessment and maybe an educational psychologist assessment. I’d then apply for an EHCP ASAP.

She is doing okay at school, rather than seeing this as masking, I wonder if thinking about how she is able to keep control in this environment? Clear boundaries? Positive reinforcement? Is she feeling more secure at school or with your mum?

This - we had quite a structures weekend/hoilday time - out in mornings - groups/parks/walks/mususms/libraries/swiming pools - quite afternoons - lots of count down to changes - as I needed that to stay sane - could it be lack of routine making it all worse this summer?

Also do they have room to be apart - while it's nice yoru eldest wants to play - youngest may be getting nasty as she needs downtime ie quiet no interaction time - so does she have her own room or space in garden she can go for that?

Though as many PP have said parent like your child has ND - find what works for her and the household in general - which when you are exhausted is an uphill draining battle but does long term work.

You can't let her hit people without severe consequences. She cannot be allowed to hit her sister several times a day or hit you until you give her food. You need to get control of the situation, you are letting her get away with extremely bad behaviour which is setting up a pattern for the future. She's 8 now what are you going to do when she is 16 and bigger than you?

There must be things that she values that you can take away if she hits or kicks anyone? You have to stop giving in to her and letting her do whatever she wants you're the adult. I just can't believe you let her hit her sister until she cries several times a day with no consequences.

Telling you would come on a thread like this to judge when OP is clearly looking for support.

🙄