Children / no children: talking with sister

I agree. Either this or she feels judged for some reason and that she needs to justify her child free position.

Just tell her you're glad you are both happy and fulfilled in your choices.

Sounds like she's trying to convince herself tbh, not you. Just nod and smile. If you're happy with your life, why does it bother you?

And talk about something else!

My best friend was like your sister. Going on and on about loving the childfree life, being able to do XYZ because she's childfree etc. Just had her first baby, age 42. Much happier.

The audacity of using coasters and looking after your stuff.

Yeah, speaking as someone who also doesn’t have kids, she does sound insecure, but I don’t think she’s necessarily intending to be obnoxious. As an adult without kids you are in the minority in a lot of social conversations and it’s easy to feel not part of the club, and to wonder if others are judging you or feeling sorry for you as they see your lives as less than theirs. From what you’ve said, she has perhaps experienced some judgment from your parents, and maybe from other people as well. I’d be inclined to see her comments not as intended to rile you or sound smug, but a bit defensive, or honestly just trying to explain to you her perspective and explain why, for her as an individual, having children wasn’t what she wanted, or wasn’t what she wanted as much as she wanted other things. It doesn’t mean she’s saying having children wasn’t right for you. Honestly it sounds a bit like she assumes you are happy in your life and might be looking down on her, and is defensively trying to point out that her life is as good as yours, just for other reasons.

I don’t blame you for finding it annoying, but I haven’t yet found a solution with my own friends who behave like this about other stuff, I’m afraid! For me, I guess I’m trying to be aware of how my own insecurities might be contributing to the dynamic, and whether there’s stuff I’m doing that’s contributing to us reacting to each other like we’re in competition. I think maybe all you can do is keep calmly reframing her comments as ‘it’s great that we’re both happy with our choices, we’re not in competition, both our lives are valid, there’s enough happiness to go around’, and hope that she eventually takes the bloody hint! lol.

This sounds weird. I’m childfree by choice and live my life exactly how I want but I don’t feel the need to finish every sentence with “…which I can do because I don’t have kids!” I just get on with my life and do the things I want to do. I wouldn’t find it remotely insensitive if someone with kids said they loved their life with kids and everything that came with it, I’d be happy for them, because I’m very secure in my choice to be childfree (it was not really a choice, just something I’ve always known). It’s not rubbing someone’s nose in it if “it” is not a thing they’re interested in. The way you describe it sounds like she had some difficulty making her choice?

Erm, my house is minging but I still expect shoes off and coasters, it's not hard.

If he's a bit of a mardy git, she might have even more issues, kids being the least of them...

I have friends (or sometimes I feel ‘friends’) who will do this over stuff other than having/not having children, e.g. comparing the cities we live in ‘oh I wouldn’t like to live where you live I’m so lucky etc’, or the career paths we have chosen. So it’s not an issue that’s specific to having children/childfree etc, it’s more about the personality of the person who’s behaving like this, and maybe about the relationship/dynamic between the two of you. I sometimes try to get my friends to shut up via the ‘isn’t it great we’re both happy with our different choices’ comment, but it always seems to crop up again. I think the root of the issue is why are you feeling competitive with each other and how can you shift the relationship so you are both feeling more secure and respecting each other’s different choices. If it wasn’t children, it might well be something else.

Spot on.

Has your sister been pushed out by your parents because she doesn't have children? If they make her feel second best, I can see why she is hurt and defensive. Grandchildren are lovely but if you favour the child/children who have produced them over the children who haven't, you are being a pretty crappy parent.

I'm child free by choice. Naturally, my conversation topics will be different from those of my friends who have children.

I tend to find my friends with children fall into two categories:

• Those who we see with their children, who talk about their children's accomplishments and what they get up to in the week;
• Those who will only see me if their children are being cared for elsewhere and who do not talk to me about their children.

I prefer the first category! Having or not having children is not a competition. I'm pleased for those who have them, I want to hear about them and what certificates they've just got for football or whatever.

I don't understand the need to hide away your children or not talk about them. It just seems a bit childish (ironically).

This sounds self imposed by you though that you can't talk about your life with children. Or at the very least that you are interpreting things she says as a dig at you in some way. So if, for example, they are travelling loads because they have more disposable income and aren't tied to school holidays. Would your sister actually say 'well of course we can do ths because we don't have children...'? In which case she is being a dick. Or are you just sitting there thinking it?

I am also not sure what the things you feel are out of bounds to talk about. Surely you just talk about what's going on in your life. And sometimes it will involve kids, sometimes not. I can't think of equivalent 'boast' for life with kids. Because even if you talk about achievements 'DD won an xx award and her xx team was top of the league' etc I don't see why that would upset someone child free.

Setting all the unknowns (like if it really is her choice) and societal expectations, comments from other family members aside, if you both love each other and respect each other’s choices why is it a problem?

Couldn’t you clear the air, just the two of you, and then just enjoy hearing about each other’s lives and plans?

I’ve got friends who are child free and do this. I just say “ isn’t it great we’ve both made choices that make us happy? You love your life and I love mine.”
It’s not a competition, and everyone has to struggle at times,

The bit that jumped out at for me was the comment about your parents and grandkids. Could they have made it clear to her that she is somehow less than you as she doesn't have kids? This unfortunately I have seen happen and can make you pretty resentful.

I agree with the poster who commented in how society still looks at child free people with the side eye. Its much more accepted today but not fully. Hopefully that will improve over the years. I don't think everyone is cut out for parenthood and it'd a good thing that people can now ope my say no thank you, not for me.

I just never got around to having DC and DH wasn't keen. I could have all the travel, etc, if I wasn't tied by looking after people. Never going to have a tidy house tho.

I definitely have had my sister say lots of things about her DC & had pressure from DM to leave DH in order to have DC. Plus there's an expectation I can do more because of fewer obligations.

I like to hear about the trials & tribulations of family life tho. It's not better or worse, just different.

I suspect there's more going on there than you know about. If you want to talk about your DC, then do. But a feeling you are walking on eggshells might suggest the relationship is more fragile than you know.

Having your DP bang on about the GC might also be causing issues, as it sounds like they aren't as sensitive as you seem to be & resentment builds, even if you're keen to be kind & skirt the choice. I'd say this is more about your sister than a straight choice about having had DC.

I do get a bit of a whiff of being a failure as a woman for not having kids, from some other women too. My sil had ivf etc & she is a lot more sensitive, so I think it may not be a choice your sister is as comfortable with as you think.

Tbh you sound more insecure about your choices than she does about hers?

I think the key here is understanding why conversations about which type of life is best, are such a huge part of your relationship.

My sister knows how much I love having children. I know she wouldn't think about it in a hundred years. She talks about her kitesurf, her mountaineering, her busy job, her new kitchen table, her friends. I talk about my children, my house renovations, my travels. Neither of us usually talks about how our life is or what that all amounts to. (We did once recently but that was because we were holidaying together.)

I think it speaks volumes that your sister's conversation is so focused on what her life amounts to. She is clearly working through that. And yes, I think the precious commenter was spot on when they said that your sister's choices are implicitly and often explicitly judged by the weight of society and history. So I agree you got the lucky straw.

Can you open you the conversation about the societal pressures there are? Can you help her work through the massive judgement she is understandably feeling? That's what I do for my childfree-but-feeling-judged-by-society friends and it's done worlds of good for our friendships. They weren't jealous of me. They were touchy because they kept getting questions about their childfree status and I was such a stereotypical example of "does it right in the eyes of the grandparents".

She is childfree by choice. And your sister.
Doesn’t she love her niece/nephews?

You can say, oh no need to feel sorry for us we visit you to see you we don’t need time away from our children, it’s a nice change though sis.

I find it odd that people would go on about how great having a clean tidy house is over having a house with people in it.

You can be gentle and say I love my life as well sis you do understand this don’t you, I wouldn’t swap my kids for early retirement or a tidy house for a quiet house. I’m glad you’re happy, moving into a different stage, ticking off life goals and have what you want, I love our kids even when they are sticky and messy, as Bob Marley said “life is worth much more than gold”

It sounds like she might be overcompensating for not having children, she might not be, but she might be. She might be reflecting if she had of had children they would be young adults now, bringing their own stories to the table and she is romanising how things might’ve been for her now. Perhaps sitting eating with just one person night after night in a lovely minimalist house is missing something? Who knows?

H & I have discussed this, there is a love you feel for your kids that you don’t feel for anyone else, we can still remember that whoosh when they were born and added in seeing their relationship grow (ours love each other more than they love anyone else which is how we wanted it to be because theirs will be the longest relationship either of them are likely to have) is amazing to be part of.

Being childfree by choice is totally understandable and you don’t miss what you don’t have, but equally having a fun, loving, messy, expensive will never retire family is also fulfilling and filled with things worthy of conversation.

How you react to your sister’s conversation is up to you @Everythingchanges72 you can choose not to let her make you feel like you should excuse them.

Agree. Why do you need your lifestyle choice verified so much as to need to talk about how great your life is to your sister? I imagine she is jealous, so I wouldn't rub it in her face.

Wait, they're teens? I assumed they were toddlers and that's why they were left with parents. I'd definitely be bringing my DDs to see their aunt, even if they had to stay elsewhere due to logistics.

Indeed. Sounds like she is trying to justify that it was a good decision by going on about how wonderful life is.

I am child free by choice.

Are you listening for what is implied or is she actually saying it?

For a simple example

'I am off on a cruise again that I can afford because I don't have children '

'I am off on a cruise again because I love them' (and the implication being she can afford it because she doesn't have children)

Is she saying the first? Or the second?

It’s like it’s fine for her to openly say how fantastic life is with no children (and she for do this, quite openly) but that it would be to insensitive for me to do the same from my side - to talk openly and enthusiastically about how great it is to be a parent and a mum to these two fantastic young people.

How does she express this? Is it "we are planning to retire at 50 because money saved on not having dc makes that a lot easier" or more offensive?

i think it’s come to a head because she and her partner have recently made some big life changes, which they can only do because they don’t have kids, and our lifestyles are about to diverge quite dramatically (not just the kids / no kids, there are lots of other things changing)

This sounds like you have a bit of insecurity too as your lives take different parts.

My sibling has a fantastic life without dc and I have a fantastic life with dc.