Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think there’s nothing wrong with a circular argument?

66 replies

SnugShaker · 15/08/2025 10:00

People always dismiss circular arguments as if they’re inherently flawed but sometimes they make perfect sense. If something is true by its own definition or widely accepted as fact, isn’t that just reinforcing a logical truth rather than a flaw? Not all circular reasoning is meaningless - some of it is just common sense.

OP posts:
YouMightThinkThat · 15/08/2025 10:20

myplace · 15/08/2025 10:18

Is this about the definition of ‘woman’?

I kind of hope so because at the moment it's just word salad and I have lost the will to live.

BuffetTheDietSlayer · 15/08/2025 10:18

Your developers still have a lot of work to do.

myplace · 15/08/2025 10:18

Is this about the definition of ‘woman’?

VeryStressedMum · 15/08/2025 10:18

MamboNumber2 · 15/08/2025 10:14

Circular argument-

You can trust John because he is honest.
How do you know he's honest?
Because you can trust him.

What you seem to be talking about-

John is a bachelor because he is an unmarried man.

Edited

This is correct.
A circular argument isn't a definition of something or common sense

myplace · 15/08/2025 10:17

SnugShaker · 15/08/2025 10:15

For example: “All bachelors are unmarried men.” It’s circular in that the definition repeats itself but it’s still true and valid because that’s exactly what a bachelor is.

Show quote history

A circular argument would be All bachelors are bachelors.

Original poster
SnugShaker · 15/08/2025 10:16

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 15/08/2025 10:10

"If something is true by its definition". What? You can't invent entities and then "prove" their existence with word-play. Well, you can, but it's entirely reasonable for someone else to point out that such a claim is deeply flawed.

True but I’m talking about things that are already accepted definitions, not made-up entities.

OP posts:
TheOtherAgentJohnson · 15/08/2025 10:16

SnugShaker · 15/08/2025 10:15

For example: “All bachelors are unmarried men.” It’s circular in that the definition repeats itself but it’s still true and valid because that’s exactly what a bachelor is.

Show quote history

This is not a circular argument, it's just the definition of bachelor.

myplace · 15/08/2025 10:16

Sometimes you need to develop the question better.
‘Why is water wet?’, may appear to allow a circular argument but it’s perhaps a poor question. ‘Why does water feel wet’ or ‘what happens when things get wet’ may be a better question if you want to understand what water and wetness are.

Original poster
SnugShaker · 15/08/2025 10:15

NewYearNewName25 · 15/08/2025 10:10

Like what? Finding it hard to understand without an example, but I’m curious about your point so would like to be able to.

Edited
Show quote history

For example: “All bachelors are unmarried men.” It’s circular in that the definition repeats itself but it’s still true and valid because that’s exactly what a bachelor is.

OP posts:
MamboNumber2 · 15/08/2025 10:14

Circular argument-

You can trust John because he is honest.
How do you know he's honest?
Because you can trust him.

What you seem to be talking about-

John is a bachelor because he is an unmarried man.

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 15/08/2025 10:10

"If something is true by its definition". What? You can't invent entities and then "prove" their existence with word-play. Well, you can, but it's entirely reasonable for someone else to point out that such a claim is deeply flawed.

NewYearNewName25 · 15/08/2025 10:10

SnugShaker · 15/08/2025 10:06

Sometimes the point isn’t to expand but to confirm the premise as self-evident.

Show quote history

Like what? Finding it hard to understand without an example, but I’m curious about your point so would like to be able to.

MamboNumber2 · 15/08/2025 10:08

I think you've misunderstood what a circular argument is.

Original poster
SnugShaker · 15/08/2025 10:06

myplace · 15/08/2025 10:01

Surely it doesn’t achieve anything? Nothing is explained or expanded upon.

Sometimes the point isn’t to expand but to confirm the premise as self-evident.

OP posts:
TheOtherAgentJohnson · 15/08/2025 10:02

I don't think you understand what circular reasoning is, unless you can give an example of your premise.

myplace · 15/08/2025 10:01

Surely it doesn’t achieve anything? Nothing is explained or expanded upon.