The school run has put me off other women

This is very true

Possibly the responders that are verging heavily towards "of course no women hate you, you bitch" and "if they're excluding you then you deserve it!!" might want to have a bit of a rethink.

What characteristic do all women share that you dislike?

Is this the ‘female nastiness’ you mean?

See.. well maybe…

You may have made your point better if you hadn’t sounded so dismissive.

Ironically, so many women on this thread have resorted to bitchiness in a bid prove there is no bitchiness.

So, there's a group of children in the playground, all in their established groups, perhaps they know each other from nursery. A new child tries to join in, but the children aren't being cliquey they're just sticking with the people they know. Is that OK?

Thing is, people are going to gravitate towards people they have stuff in common with and who they are friends with. I will choose to talk to my friends at school drop-off, maybe that looks like a clique but it’s just 4-5 of us who are friendly outside of school choosing to spend 3 mins or whatever talking to each other. There are other pockets of mums who I assume are also friends outside of school and obviously will gravitate towards each other in the playground too.

I don’t understand the school gate issue. We’ve recently moved so I don’t know anyone. But I don’t view it as bitchy cliques that are ignoring me. I view it as people who don’t know me chatting to their friends.

It is much easier to make female friends at hobby groups than the school gates

most people make their minds up about someone within the first few seconds - that’s just humans - and at the school gates it will be a once over of your attire and face and a quick question about something - any of these are wrong and you will never be invited to find out that you both love def leopard

at the hobby groups that first words will be about the hobby not your job and you will be wearing the right t shirt you can’t fail that test so easily

people who don’t experience difficulties will find this hard to understand

My standard response to this is, what have you done yourself to cultivate friendships? I organised 2 or 3 Mums nights out for the class when DS was young ( my menopausal self cannot believe I had the inclination).

Not everyone has to get on. I heaved a sigh of relief when DS became a teen as his friends tended to be in a more well off social set where the DMs tended not to work. Then he got into the rugby first team and I was thrown into proximity again. I understand that I am not part of that group of DMs generally ( I hate the word clique with a passion) but I am chatty in passing and say hello to everyone.

I am certainly not some alpha female, but I have never come across this deliberate snubbing that some people apparently have.

My own experience is that yes there are groups of women on the school run that are friends. They might have been at nct together, they might have met at playgroups, they may know eachother from school themselves. That can make it feel like there are cliques and it can feel very exclusionary and lonely if you’re not part of it. I don’t think it’s nastiness usually though. People on mumsnet get very defensive about it. Probably because they’ve never been on the other side of the fence.

This!

I don't particularly enjoy the company of other women.

What's wrong with that.

I don't prefer men as friends, I have very close female friends, but I have always hated the school run. It is cliquey and can feel bullying and intimidating.

I've done a lot of school runs in my time - my 4 x dc's are ages 36 to13 - and I've generally hated the school run, and always liked being a working mum so I don't have to do it everyday. And now I don't have to do it at all!!

I’m sure it can be a thing , but I haven’t experienced it. Mostly because I didn’t want or need to be in the various groups. Just said hi or smiled to anyone and everyone, picked up my kid and left. They returned that basic politeness, all good. Got closer with some simply because our kids were really good friends. Didn’t with some , especially past the age of drop off and run , because we didn’t actually click as people. All polite, nice and civil though.

One question though, why is everyone complaining about the school run mums always go for the clique/mean girls/popular mums/ cool group/big group? Why not go for the mum on her own/the working mum /the smaller group etc.?

Like all things I think it obviously depends on who your peers are and if you’re someone who likes big female groups or perhaps is more into one on one friendships. I prefer mixed sex groups as a whole. Plus there were some almighty falling outs between mum groups at my DD primary school. It was the only village school in a large village. I was pretty pleased not to be involved as I’d kept my distance somewhat and therefore avoided it.

No competition, drama, no falling's out or exclusion of others. Cliques exclude and do not welcome new people into their group.

This is why you don’t understand if there are any problems. You’ve never engaged with it.

This confuses me too. What are these mysterious interests that only men have?

I am interested in pretty much everything. Except team sports. If I'm generalising, I would say that men like to tell you about stuff (hello dh and ds), whereas you're more likely to have an actual conversation, with questions and everything, from women. But this comes down to socialisation and learning how to communicate. Which is why men just throw facts about football or music at each other as a bonding exercise. It's safer.

Men's conversations at school pick up tend to go like this:
Alright.
Alright.
You not in work today then?
Yeah mate, I was on 6-2. You watching the game tonight?

Dh, as a non football fan used to run out of conversation very quickly.

I just drop kids off and go home - hardly talk to anyone. I've never been interested in talking to anyone for a longer time as I'm very busy!

How do you and your three or four close friends at the school gate differ from the 'cliques' that you saw? Would a woman on their own feeling vulnerable not perceive your group as a clique? If not then why?

Totally agree. I’m sorry if Op feels ignored but I talk to the parents I actually know for 5 mins then get to work. I’m not cliquey at all but I don’t have to introduce myself and welcome other mums either!

I would just say hello to anyone there that I vaguely recognised, sometimes it would turn into a few minutes chat, sometimes someone else might join in, no one was excluded. I suppose if there was a small group formed when you arrived it might look like a clique but would be just a random selection of mums in my experience. But as others have said it was maybe 5 minutes morning and evening, not a huge thing.

I don’t relate at all. I’ve never met so many nice, kind, friendly people as I have at my children’s school. There are some cliques but I don’t engage with those.

Have you ever considered that this might be a you problem? As far as I remember the school run there wasn’t actually much time for chatting as most of us were dropping off and going to work. Why would you feel ignored in that scenario, do you not have to get to work?

See, that's just nasty. ""You" problem." 🙄 You don't know the OP's set up. Some school yards do have groups of friends that get together and act like complete weirdos when it comes to people not in the group "outsiders". It wasn't a thing with my second kid, the mums were all "normal", but t definitely was with the eldest and one particular group. Even the teachers had noticed 😁