The school run has put me off other women

I’ve never understood this thing about “cliques” surely it’s just people that are friends and know each other standing chatting? Do you expect everyone to stand in a big circle and talk? It’s just groups of people chatting! Yes some of them may do things outside of the school together and god forbid not include the whole class mums because they are…Friends. Start chatting to people, work on your social skills and make an effort to include yourself and make friends. That’s just what most people do!

The average primaey school has 300 kids, lets say thats 200 parents, and you say they're all ignoring you?

These threads are ridiculous. I do think being back in a school can bring up old memories and feelings and these get placed on the other people you see and you are reading situations that just aren't there. I've got a group of friends from my kid's school, some of whom I am extremely close to. But sometimes on the school run I might just stand on my own and not go over and chat cos I am winding down from work/hot/can't be arsed, no one thinks I'm ignoring them, they just think my social battery is flat. Or I might end up chit chatting to another parent who I haven't seen for a while. Thid is all adult behaviour. Thinking you're being excluded/ignored is you being the one still stuck on the playground.

The best thing you can do is to have a proper subjective look at their behaviour and yours.

Is it really ALL the mums? You already seem to be inclined to admit it isn’t. Are they one whole big group or lots of little groups? Are there any other mums on their own(there were actually more of those at DD’s school than women in actual cliques)? Are they actually ignoring/excluding you?

Are you smiling/friendly/open? Do you say hello? Do you ask kids/mums over for a playdate at your house /at the park? Are you actually open to a friendship/acquaintanceship with these women?

These questions is not to say it’s all in your head/it’s your fault, but sometimes perspective can be hugely influenced by past experiences ,a strong instinct of self preservation and confirmation bias.

Why does getting on better with men mean you have internalised misogyny?

Try cosying up to the Dads at the school gate instead then.

Honestly the best thing you can do is stop caring what people think. Do the school run, be polite to people who are nice, avoid whoever isn't and once you leave the school don't give it a second thought.

This always annoys me.

If you went to college or university and were waiting to go into a lecture, did you expect everyone to talk to you and invite you over, or did people tend to chat to their friends? For me, I chatted to my friends and didn’t expect anything different. Same situation. You don’t have to interact with everyone who happens to be in the same vicinity. Some will catch your eye and chat, others won’t.

And re women being more bitchy. Not in my experience. I’ve worked in some wonderful all female teams. The only bitchy team was all male except me. They spent all of their time putting each other down and trying to make each other look stupid.

Give me a group of women any day.

You will find this splits firmly into two camps.

Those that recognise the cliques and steer clear, whether that’s due to past experience or lack of interest

Those that are in or leading the cliques, that protest and say they are lovely people etc etc

I have been part of both - and both views are broadly true.

It is up to you how you manage it, but be aware of your bias and personal lens. Be aware this is your child’s community - not yours, so be respectful to everyone and you won’t go far long. Open up and tell them your darkest secrets - that’s on you when it backfires!!

In my many years of school runs (eldest in secondary now), this has truly never been my experience. I don’t begrudge people having friends and sticking to chatting with and hanging out with the people they know.

I am the most non-school gate mum you will meet. I don’t talk to anyone, unless they corner me. 😂

I have friends through school, who are dc’s friends’ parents or parents I know from somewhere (activity I do, helping with village cream tea or whatever). But I don’t really want to hang around and talk to them. I’m not in any school WhatsApp groups. I’m not in any school drama. Okay, I did report another parent for harassment (abusive dad of another mum, known for DV and harassing his neighbours) but it’s not someone anyone else likes anyway and it blew over in about a week after the police paid them a little visit. 😂 But generally no ongoing drama.

But I don’t really look to the school run as a place to make friends. I have friends. I have a busy life apart from my kids and being a parent. I know for some people the school run is all they do and their whole world, but it’s literally like brushing my teeth. It’s just a necessary task, like taking out the bins. Be nice and polite to everyone and get in and out. Make friends with people you actually like.

It is amusing that women here are responding to allegations of bitchiness by being really quite bitchy 😆

In fairness to the OP, often other mums who are not part of the group are having to weave around a group of chattering mums if they're standing in the middle of a busy footpath, right in front of the school gates, etc. As in lots of other situations, herd mentality kicks in with groups making it difficult for others to easily pass by, and for some, it can feel intimidating.

Women talking to me = making friends
Women talking to other women without involving me = "Bitchy, cliquey school gate mums".

That’s your comprehension issue. You removed all the relevant information and arrived at a conclusion suiting your agenda to make a point and think you are better.

Actually, if you are part of a good male team or have been brought up with lots of men in the family, you can relate better to men. My father definitely brought me up to think like a man. What drives me nuts is having to listen to all the unnecessary detail about how one should bring up a child or decorate a house or cook a meal. I am not stupid. Why would I want to listen to someone else telling me what is good for my child.

And what do you think the school run would be like if it wasn't 80% of the time the mum who was doing it? Do you not think it would be groups of men standing around talking?

It takes a while to find a group that you gel with. I think most people are just really busy and as others have said, only have time to say hi to the people they already know.
Having said that, I have recently seen an unpleasant side of one of the mums in our little group. She’s shown herself to be a shameless social climber and it’s clear she’s only interested in people who occupy what she deems to be a higher place in the school mums hierarchy. It’s quite subtle though, it took me a while to see it. It’s beyond me why any grown adult would revert to high school mean girl behaviour. I just keep her at arms length as we will always see each other at parties, sports days etc.

It’s not shite. She was bullied as a child, had bad experiencing with friends, repeatedly this experience become traumatic .

The way you have written this post with 0 empathy and with such superiority, compared that to the way op wrote her post narrating her experiences for her but also having self doubt, I think you are the one who is coming across aggressive and bitchy and op as much nicer person.

A lot of depressing misogyny her.

I have never been alpha or popular. At school or anywhere. i am not cool or attractive etc. But I eventually found some parents who were lovely and friendly.

Horrid people exist everywhere. Including men. Let’s not perpetuate the ‘bitchy women’ stereotype. Some school mums have been kind, helpful and decent. To me and my kids. Sahms have helped out working mums like me during inset days etc.

Because some people are rude, doesn’t mean the clique culture is the norm everywhere. It means those people are rude. Nothing more or less.

"thought I had nothing in common with other women" = "not like other girls"

That is definitely internalised misogyny.

I’m sure you meant to sound helpfully conversational and not accidentally confrontational. Didn’t you?

The bullying experience has understandably stayed with you, and will have coloured your experiences and expectations.
You're an adult now, some people will like you and be friendly, others won't. It's not because they're women, it's because of the situation, usually.
Just try to think of it as an errand that you do, be polite with the good morning etc, but if they don't become your friends, what have you lost? Try not to take it as a rejection.

Is a clique a group of people who know each other? I chat to the other mums I know through our children, activities, hobbies or through other means, it's not purposefully excluding anyone and isn't bitchy or 'drama''.

It’s not shite. Some people have experienced that from childhood and it can be traumatic. You didn’t so you don’t understand.

I am the least cliquey person you could ever meet (socially inept😂) but perhaps people thought I was in a clique because I spoke briefly with the same people most days who happened to like standing in the same area. There was no deliberate effort to meet and often I was by myself, which was fine. But there definitely were cliques and some of them (not all) were very loud and performative in the way they interacted and definitely weren’t open to new members. Plenty of these groups included men. At least a third, possibly up to half, of the parents/grandparents doing drop off and pick up at my children’s primary school were men and they could be just as cliquey as everyone else.