The school run has put me off other women

SueSuddio · 2025-08-15T08:30:11+00:00

I used to have a woman problem. In my 20s I mostly sought out male friendship & thought I had nothing in common with other women save for a couple of female friends. When I got pregnant and had children, my head spun and I felt ashamed of myself with all my internalised mysogyny. I was lucky to make some lovely friends - I gravitate towards women now. However, I was then introduced to the school run. Tons of women, tons of cliques. And I had a flashback to the bitchy girls at school, the bullies and even my friends who were nice one minute, nasty or ignoring me the next. I'm not getting bullied now, but I'm often getting ignored. I still think I had internalised mysogyny when I was younger, but I also think it was completely supported by the female nastiness I encountered, echoes of which I see at the school gate. Hoping it passes but can anyone relate?

GRex · 24/08/2025 19:09

I agree about the caution on ignoring. There are 3 mums and 1 dad at the current school who chat with me when available, but if someone else shows up they just don't join in. One of them I've introduced multiple times by mistake to the same people, but she won't talk with them. I have limited time; I want to say hi to everyone, ask one about what days their kid is in after school club that week as we have a choice of 2, ask another about a play date for a local event we half discussed and give a third one the swim details I hadn't got around to texting back when they asked. Join in and you get dialled into any of it that takes your fancy, but step back because I say hi to another person and frankly I can't be arsed to separately update you!

CrochetQueeen · 23/08/2025 23:44

I think you have to be careful with ignoring. I have about 15 minutes in the playground with the other mums and I can't speak to everyone, I have a son in an older class. Half the conversations.are practical about some arrangements or other, some are more serious like hearing that someone has an unwell parent or other issue. I've also felt like some parents completely ignored me and a few years later I'm round their house for drinks and they're great. I wouldn't judge or hold a grudge, if you want to chat to someone then go for it

mrlistersgelfbride · 23/08/2025 23:39

I’ve said it before on here and I’ll say it again. School mums don’t have to be your best mates or even your mates at all.
Try not to let it bother you.
I’m someone who gets on with men generally better too but I don’t mean this in a weird way, I’m just geeky and I find some men easier to talk to.
Just say hello to everyone, be nice but you don’t need to go overboard about trying to befriend other parents at school. I always had to rush off to work, in a way that makes it easier.
It may happen naturally years down the line.

PrittStickMan · 23/08/2025 23:30

Franjipanl8r · 23/08/2025 22:14

You honestly can’t see why the OP needs to work on herself?

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What I can’t imagine is saying something like this and genuinely having no self-awareness while doing so. I usually assume that there is work to be done on myself before I start dishing out flippant advice.

Franjipanl8r · 23/08/2025 22:14

PrittStickMan · 16/08/2025 16:46

Everyone’s fighting their own battles and you have no idea what people are dealing with behind closed doors day to day.

This is why I don’t say flippant things like ‘this is a you problem’ to people.

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You honestly can’t see why the OP needs to work on herself?

Original poster

SueSuddio · 18/08/2025 11:18

@PensionedCruiser ** Well done for establishing yourself regardless, great if you have that kind of extrovert, don't give a damn personality, I have a couple of friends like that & they just do well in most places.

Thanks for everyone posting, I'm going to take the result as split. I've been wondering for a while whether to post this as you can get flamed on here for even suggesting women might form cliques & I do get that these 'groups' are not always what you think.

But I'm glad I did, it's been liberating just to talk a tiny bit about my bullying at school & it's lingering effects, something I've just tried to pretend didn't happen.

Good luck in September at the school gates everyone, whether you enjoy it, hate it, flip flop or are neutral.

OP posts:

IndyNial · 18/08/2025 08:49

Even in these enlightened times, it is mainly mums doing the school runs. So of course any groups of rude people at school will be largely women. If more men did it, there would be male ‘cliques’. Think people need to remember that confounder before labelling women as bitches.

Kelz40 · 18/08/2025 08:17

I just don’t like people in general 😂
I keep myself to myself wherever I go. My circle is small for a reason. As long as they don’t bother me, I don’t bother them.

Nestingbirds · 17/08/2025 20:48

PensionedCruiser · 17/08/2025 15:44

@SueSuddio The problem with the "mean girls" is that when they grow up, most of them remain the same. I've also realised that the "hair and makeup" girls don't change much either as they get older. At least not until they are all past child rearing and then they all change, usually for the better.

I now live in a small town that has always been very cliquey. My mil warned me that young mum society was very stratified and that they are all standoffish until they can put you in your particular stratum.

Well, I was very difficult to categorise! I was a SAHP. I had put a professional career on hold. I was an older mother. I was married to a local (many of them knew my husband and his family from schooldays) and yet, I was an incomer. I dealt with it by talking to everyone both at Nursery School and the school gates. I smiled and said hello to everyone I saw. Where others clearly didn't want to talk to me, I ignored their discomfort and nattered on about nothing much.

It was clear at the outset, that those who were also incomers were grateful for the interactions. Those who had large support networks (or thought that their middle class was entitled them to look down on me) learned to put up with it. I played one-upmanship with the snobs, blithely pretending that I didn't see the put downs and not accepting them, I sympathised with those who obviously were struggling and helped if I could. And I introduced them to each other - much to their shock and horror. I'm quite sure that I became "that mad Welsh woman", but my children had playdates and people came to me when I joined the school board (like governors). 30 odd years on, I never had to rely on my husband or his family for contacts and I now know loads of people here, mostly as my children's mother.

Have I made lifelong friends? No. But I did have friends that I had a lot in common with for a time, but we drifted apart as the children got older and others came into my life.

Yes, the school gates can be brutal but how you deal with it is up to you. You can either keep quiet and stay in your bubble, or you can be bold and not accept the little signals that others give off. Mostly, other mothers are terrified of making a move that will cause them to be ostracised from whichever 'group' they belong to. And here we are, back to the mean girls and their 'in groups' or posse again.

^ this 100%

Plumnora · 17/08/2025 16:24

PensionedCruiser · 17/08/2025 15:44

@SueSuddio The problem with the "mean girls" is that when they grow up, most of them remain the same. I've also realised that the "hair and makeup" girls don't change much either as they get older. At least not until they are all past child rearing and then they all change, usually for the better.

I now live in a small town that has always been very cliquey. My mil warned me that young mum society was very stratified and that they are all standoffish until they can put you in your particular stratum.

Well, I was very difficult to categorise! I was a SAHP. I had put a professional career on hold. I was an older mother. I was married to a local (many of them knew my husband and his family from schooldays) and yet, I was an incomer. I dealt with it by talking to everyone both at Nursery School and the school gates. I smiled and said hello to everyone I saw. Where others clearly didn't want to talk to me, I ignored their discomfort and nattered on about nothing much.

It was clear at the outset, that those who were also incomers were grateful for the interactions. Those who had large support networks (or thought that their middle class was entitled them to look down on me) learned to put up with it. I played one-upmanship with the snobs, blithely pretending that I didn't see the put downs and not accepting them, I sympathised with those who obviously were struggling and helped if I could. And I introduced them to each other - much to their shock and horror. I'm quite sure that I became "that mad Welsh woman", but my children had playdates and people came to me when I joined the school board (like governors). 30 odd years on, I never had to rely on my husband or his family for contacts and I now know loads of people here, mostly as my children's mother.

Have I made lifelong friends? No. But I did have friends that I had a lot in common with for a time, but we drifted apart as the children got older and others came into my life.

Yes, the school gates can be brutal but how you deal with it is up to you. You can either keep quiet and stay in your bubble, or you can be bold and not accept the little signals that others give off. Mostly, other mothers are terrified of making a move that will cause them to be ostracised from whichever 'group' they belong to. And here we are, back to the mean girls and their 'in groups' or posse again.

All of this!

dizzydizzydizzy · 17/08/2025 15:47

I’ve always mostly had female friends but I have had issues with school mums. DC2’s class and their mums were lovely, DC1 was in a horrid class and hardly any of their mums would ever speak to me. I stuck with the mums in DC2’s class and gave up in the other class.

PensionedCruiser · 17/08/2025 15:44

@SueSuddio The problem with the "mean girls" is that when they grow up, most of them remain the same. I've also realised that the "hair and makeup" girls don't change much either as they get older. At least not until they are all past child rearing and then they all change, usually for the better.

I now live in a small town that has always been very cliquey. My mil warned me that young mum society was very stratified and that they are all standoffish until they can put you in your particular stratum.

Well, I was very difficult to categorise! I was a SAHP. I had put a professional career on hold. I was an older mother. I was married to a local (many of them knew my husband and his family from schooldays) and yet, I was an incomer. I dealt with it by talking to everyone both at Nursery School and the school gates. I smiled and said hello to everyone I saw. Where others clearly didn't want to talk to me, I ignored their discomfort and nattered on about nothing much.

It was clear at the outset, that those who were also incomers were grateful for the interactions. Those who had large support networks (or thought that their middle class was entitled them to look down on me) learned to put up with it. I played one-upmanship with the snobs, blithely pretending that I didn't see the put downs and not accepting them, I sympathised with those who obviously were struggling and helped if I could. And I introduced them to each other - much to their shock and horror. I'm quite sure that I became "that mad Welsh woman", but my children had playdates and people came to me when I joined the school board (like governors). 30 odd years on, I never had to rely on my husband or his family for contacts and I now know loads of people here, mostly as my children's mother.

Have I made lifelong friends? No. But I did have friends that I had a lot in common with for a time, but we drifted apart as the children got older and others came into my life.

Yes, the school gates can be brutal but how you deal with it is up to you. You can either keep quiet and stay in your bubble, or you can be bold and not accept the little signals that others give off. Mostly, other mothers are terrified of making a move that will cause them to be ostracised from whichever 'group' they belong to. And here we are, back to the mean girls and their 'in groups' or posse again.

Rusalina · 16/08/2025 23:27

AnPiscin · 15/08/2025 09:59

I find it really bizarre when women (and I've only seen this with women - it may happen with men too) believe that other women are super confident and have somehow organised this closed 'clique' that they can never have access to. It's like a weird micro-conspiracy theory. The same women always seem to believe other women must be super welcoming at all times, always be polite and say hello, never have a bad day, never just be in their own world or they're bitches.

Believe me, they are just getting on with life. I promise you. No one is trying to exclude you.

Yes, and not only do they expect other women to be extra-friendly and welcoming, they expect that whilst also showing absolutely zero interest or signal to the women in question that they WANT to be friends.

I once heard through the grape vine that a woman at an activity I used to attend thought I was stuck up and felt that my friends and I excluded her from the “clique”. From my perspective, I’d tried to get chatting to this woman when she joined the club but she was very standoffish, very cold, and therefore I assumed she had no interest in being my friend.

I’m not a mind reader. If you act like you are hating every second of talking to me then I will assume you are hating every second of talking to me, and thus will leave you in peace!

VeryLightToast · 16/08/2025 23:21

SueSuddio · 16/08/2025 21:48

@VeryLightToast belittling aside I admire your thick skin and not 'blaming other women' when you didn't integrate, I actually want to be like this.

I appreciate the nuanced replies and it seems pretty split so far on what's happening in my experience.

I expect this just reflects the reality. There are cliques at the school gate but I'm also projecting hostility onto these 'groups' because of my school days. Of course I'm not the only one doing this, far from it.

I also fully expected the blunt replies, I mean, I've started a goady AIBU 🙈

The thing that's annoyed me most about the clique in my year group is that it limits your interactions. You try and chat with mum x and as soon as another person from the clique turns up, you're passed over. And that's really frustrating.

I think my expectations were maybe unrealistic too. At nursery it was different, the parents mixed well and I thought the school gate would be more of the same.

I didn’t mean to sound so harsh, @SueSuddio — I do remember that it was no fun feeling like a leper every time I did the school run or attended an event. I’d never struggled socially in my life, and I’m a confident person who made a lot of the running to integrate in that setting. It was just a poor fit of person and environment. With hindsight I recognise just how unusual I was there. I still don’t think think it was anyone’s fault, though. Other people just didn’t like me in that context. They were within their rights to prefer other people!

We moved when DS was 7 and even starting in a new place midyear in challenging circumstances I made good friends quickly at the school gate.

usersame · 16/08/2025 23:16

There are often threads about school runs in MN. I don't really get it - surely you just go and pick up your kids and go. It doesn't need to be anything more than that. If groups of women are talking - so what? They're not excluding you, they're just chatting.

MauveExpert · 16/08/2025 23:02

Worth folks bearing in mind that there are legitimate reasons why some women may connect better with men. Eg this can sometimes be a thing in autistic women

Ultravox · 16/08/2025 22:07

I can relate with your younger years…I found male friendships easier as a child and didn’t relate to many other women in my 20s.
However as I’ve got older I haven’t found any cliques as you describe. Sure some people at the school gate are friendlier with some people than with others but I’ve always thought there were reasons for that: perhaps their partners are friends, perhaps they already know each other from older children, perhaps they have met through their kids at nursery. Etc etc etc. They aren’t actually talking about you and excluding you - they just aren’t thinking about you at all because yknow they’ve got their own lives!

TheaBrandt1 · 16/08/2025 21:58

Could you form your own clique? That’s what I do when I feel left out works well.

Original poster

SueSuddio · 16/08/2025 21:48

@VeryLightToast belittling aside I admire your thick skin and not 'blaming other women' when you didn't integrate, I actually want to be like this.

I appreciate the nuanced replies and it seems pretty split so far on what's happening in my experience.

I expect this just reflects the reality. There are cliques at the school gate but I'm also projecting hostility onto these 'groups' because of my school days. Of course I'm not the only one doing this, far from it.

I also fully expected the blunt replies, I mean, I've started a goady AIBU 🙈

The thing that's annoyed me most about the clique in my year group is that it limits your interactions. You try and chat with mum x and as soon as another person from the clique turns up, you're passed over. And that's really frustrating.

I think my expectations were maybe unrealistic too. At nursery it was different, the parents mixed well and I thought the school gate would be more of the same.

OP posts:

Ireallywantadoughnut36 · 16/08/2025 20:01

AnPiscin · 15/08/2025 09:49

There are definitely nasty women in the world. I would argue men are far, far nastier, given that the rates at which they murder, rape and maim other people.

Being around someone who believes in cliques and 'being left out' is incredibly uncomfortable. Dealing with insecure people is very difficult - people, especially busy people with children - tend to avoid it and go for easygoing people who just get on with chatting and don't mind if sometimes someone forgets to say hello.

If you could get out of your own head and see the women around you as people who are just trying to get on with life you might find they're not out to get you - in fact, you are just not that important.

This!!! 100% this. I've a friend who is insecure and the mental leaps are bonkers "I saw so and so out with so and so on Instagram and we didn't even get an invite" as we sit together at a cafe on a coffee date that we didn't invite anyone else to! Some people get on and make friends, others don't, some people already have enough friends, some people are just not friendly, some people can be mean but most aren't. Almost nobody (or at least no normal person over 16) makes plans and texts their friends saying "ooh let's not invite Kathy, she was wearing pink on a Thursday so we should all leave her out forever". Yes, people chat in groups, yes people make friends and meet up with them at other times. It's not a personal vendetta.
I actually think it is internalised misogyny because women are "supposed" to be kind and inclusive and maternal, but the reality is we all want to just hang out with our favourite people, which isn't unkind. When men hang out with their friends it's never described as a "clique" or as bitchy... drives me mad.

Plumnora · 16/08/2025 18:54

I mean, it's up to you who you choose to gravitate towards and if you prefer the company of men then who's anyone to object?
I was bullied by other girls at school. I was a bit different and didn't fit the small town mindset. Then I ended up at an all girls high school! I live in a small town now and still don't fit in with certain groups but I don't care what they think or say about me.
You say they ignore you but have you joined in any conversations? I'm naturally shy and reserved with new people and envy those who seem to just turn up and immediately get accepted as one of the crew but I also accept that I'm not gregarious and that people do generally view me with suspicion before they talk to me, but again, I don't care these days! I like who I like, be they male or female. The people that matter know me and have my back and to coin a phrase, what others think of me is none of my business.

Midnights68 · 16/08/2025 18:41

I think that unless you’ve witnessed and experienced active unkindness from these people, then what you perceive as ‘bitchy cliques’ is most likely just ‘groups of people who know each other chatting’, and historic bad experiences are causing you to project unresolved feelings onto them. We all gravitate towards people we know in any given situation - it’s very normal.

Some of the best advice I have ever been given is: you would worry much less about what people think of you if you knew how infrequently they actually do.

TheaBrandt1 · 16/08/2025 18:36

Omg men can be so mean in the office! They are way bitchier than women are. With the addition that some are pervy too and some grade women on looks out of 10 🙄. Maybe that’s only lawyers though as the only offices I’ve worked in.

I met lots of brilliant women at the school gates. And at school, university and work. Think I am just lucky maybe.

MrsB74 · 16/08/2025 18:13

I never had an issue at the school gates ss I generally knew someone to speak to from a child’s birthday party or a neighbour etc. I wasn’t aware of any nastiness. Some (not that many) I genuinely clicked with, others I just saw occasionally for a quick hello. I think women that have had bad school experiences with bullying mean girls understandably struggle with groups of women, especially in a school setting. Those girls still exist in high schools and are still awful!!! I could easily identify them at my daughter’s recent prom. Chances are those school mums are they are just talking to friends they have known for a while. If they are truly bitchy, then you are better off without them. You will find your tribe elsewhere, primary school doesn’t last long.

Comedycook · 16/08/2025 16:59

The mum clique in my dds class were so bizarre....at morning drop off they would all hug each other to say hello. After they'd sent their DC into the classroom they'd all hug each other goodbye. At pick up in the afternoon, they'd all hug hello then once their DC were sent out they'd all hug goodbye again. It was so bizarre to watch...