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Original poster

Are the old meanings of the words woman and man redundant?

135 replies

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 06:15

Various dictionary definitions seem
to have made the words woman and man redundant.

In short.

woman = XX chromosomes, adult human female (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always without the SRY genes)

woman = XY chromosomes, adult human male (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always with the SRY gene) but believe and feels they are XX and all the associated characteristics of an adult human female.

man = XY chromosomes, adult human male (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always with the SRY gene)

man = XX chromosomes, adult human female (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always without the SRY genes) but believe and feel they are XY.

If this was a venn diagram I’m not sure it would work.

AIBU to think we just need new words for the old biological meanings of these categories to save confusion?

OP posts:
Overthebow · 13/08/2025 07:32

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:25

It if women’s changing rooms can be used by either men or women depending upon how they identify then what’s the point of labeling them women’s? The word is redundant no?

Womens changing rooms can’t be used by anyone who identifies. They can only be used by actual women.

BundleBoogie · 13/08/2025 07:32

Lowerback · 13/08/2025 06:53

Don’t be daft. The trans movement would just take over those new words too.

We need to hold onto the real meaning of woman and man.

Show quote history

Exactly.

Thankfully I have a hard copy of the dictionary from the 90s and it has the correct definition.

Once we oust the activists who have corrupted the dictionaries with their ideological nonsense, we can use that as a reference.

CosmicEcho · 13/08/2025 07:30

This would be so confusing for those learning English. It’s not only about learning words, but about a whole movement that doesn’t translate to other languages and cultures.

AgnesX · 13/08/2025 07:28

Don't believe everything you read. Simple.

As much as some might like to believe it there care still only two sexes.

VioletandDill · 13/08/2025 07:27

Transwomen are women. Words can have more than one definition or complex definitions and the world doesn't collapse. TERFs are not radical. You're not rad at all.

Dunno whose side you're on, you troll of an OP, but nice wind up.

Harshreality · 13/08/2025 07:26

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:25

It if women’s changing rooms can be used by either men or women depending upon how they identify then what’s the point of labeling them women’s? The word is redundant no?

But they can't. That's the law

TaborlinTheGreat · 13/08/2025 07:26

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 06:56

But isn’t the right thing to say, trans women are women?

Show quote history

No. HTH.

ScathingAngelAgrona · 13/08/2025 07:25

jen337 · 13/08/2025 07:24

Didn’t realise the school debating club met during the summer holidays

Primary school?

Original poster
Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:25

It if women’s changing rooms can be used by either men or women depending upon how they identify then what’s the point of labeling them women’s? The word is redundant no?

OP posts:
jen337 · 13/08/2025 07:24

Didn’t realise the school debating club met during the summer holidays

Original poster
Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:22

woman
(ˈwʊmən)
n, pl women (ˈwɪmɪn)
1. (Anthropology & Ethnology) an adult female human being
2. (modifier) female or feminine: a woman politician; woman talk.
3. (Anthropology & Ethnology) women collectively; womankind
4. the woman feminine nature or feelings: babies bring out the woman in her.
5. a female servant or domestic help
6. a man considered as having supposed female characteristics, such as meekness or timidity
7. informal a wife, mistress, or girlfriend
8. the little woman informal one's wife
9. woman of the streets a prostitute
vb (tr)
10. rare to provide with women
11. obsolete to make effeminate
[Old English wīfmann, wimman; from wife + man (human being)]
ˈwomanless adj
ˈwoman-ˌlike adj

OP posts:
NebulouslyContemporaneous · 13/08/2025 07:22

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:15

Because the two meaning both in the dictionary and in use throughout the workplace and generally have two very different meanings.
If trans women are women then the meaning has been lost.

Show quote history

But transwomen aren't women. The definition that I suggested clearly states that they are men.

You might just as well argue that the term radish is fatally compromised by the existence of horseradish

PamIsAVolleyballChamp · 13/08/2025 07:21

NeelyOHara · 13/08/2025 07:03

Bit early to be under your bridge isn’t it?

I know, it's like going back in time isn't it....

Butchyrestingface · 13/08/2025 07:20

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:15

Because the two meaning both in the dictionary and in use throughout the workplace and generally have two very different meanings.
If trans women are women then the meaning has been lost.

Show quote history

If trans women are women then the meaning has been lost.

Transwomen aren't women though. They're men. Otherwise they wouldn't be trans.

How many times does it need said? Confused

Zonder · 13/08/2025 07:19

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 06:54

Many people and dictionaries seem to say that men can be women and that sex can be changed after it is ‘assigned at birth’

Show quote history

Have you tried talking to any actual scientists about this? I have - actual proper scientists who are experts in human biology and none that I've spoken to believe TW actual are W. Biologically they're not women.

Harshreality · 13/08/2025 07:19

This is a windup.
Women are women. Transwomen are men. Trans right are men's rights.

Original poster
Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:17

NebulouslyContemporaneous · 13/08/2025 07:01

Although that idiotic definition should be there at all, it is only the second definition, not the primary one, for the entry women.

The primary definition, as you say, is 'adult female human being'.

So how is it that you are suggesting that the primary definition should give way, and cede its meaning? Wouldn't it make sense for the secondary meaning (which is there as a result of top-down pressure, not as a result of an organic evolution of meaning) to be displaced -- by the already-existing and perfectly adequate term "transwoman" (defined as an adult male human who identifies as female)

Show quote history

Great user name 😍

OP posts:
LeftieRightsHoarder · 13/08/2025 07:16

Winterwonders24 · 13/08/2025 07:15

But they're not women. The problem isn't not having words but s combination of a small proportion of aggressive bullies,and a few more wets who apparently think facts can be changed if someone is discomforted or shouts loud enough, who muddy the words up. Adding accurate words is redundant when people are playing silly games

Show quote history

Absolutely right.

Winterwonders24 · 13/08/2025 07:15

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 06:31

But if trans identifying men are woman then they don’t work fine.
I think we need new words to define biology

Show quote history

But they're not women. The problem isn't not having words but s combination of a small proportion of aggressive bullies,and a few more wets who apparently think facts can be changed if someone is discomforted or shouts loud enough, who muddy the words up. Adding accurate words is redundant when people are playing silly games

Original poster
Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:15

NebulouslyContemporaneous · 13/08/2025 07:01

Although that idiotic definition should be there at all, it is only the second definition, not the primary one, for the entry women.

The primary definition, as you say, is 'adult female human being'.

So how is it that you are suggesting that the primary definition should give way, and cede its meaning? Wouldn't it make sense for the secondary meaning (which is there as a result of top-down pressure, not as a result of an organic evolution of meaning) to be displaced -- by the already-existing and perfectly adequate term "transwoman" (defined as an adult male human who identifies as female)

Show quote history

Because the two meaning both in the dictionary and in use throughout the workplace and generally have two very different meanings.
If trans women are women then the meaning has been lost.

OP posts:
LeftieRightsHoarder · 13/08/2025 07:15

OP’s definitions 1 and 3 are correct, 2 is wishful thinking by sex fetishists and 4 is wishful thinking by disturbed women or (more often) girls.

Imagining otherwise is what causes confusion. Shame on the publishers of the Cambridge Dictionary.

JellySaurus · 13/08/2025 07:12

But isn’t the right thing to say, trans women are women?

You're a bit late to the party @Thadthimes 🤣

But isn’t the right thing to say, to lie? The only requirement to be a transwman is to be a man. A woman cannot be a transwman.

The right thing to say is that sex is immutable and relevant. The right thing to say is that language matters. The right thing to say is that safeguarding matters. The right thing to say is the truth.

Don’t trans people prefer to be referred to as just woman and accepted as actual Women

So? I'm sure bullying schoolboys prefer to be referred to as just innocent children and accepted as actual innocents. The right thing to say is the truth.

Londonrach1 · 13/08/2025 07:10

No not in Real life.

Meadowfinch · 13/08/2025 07:09

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:01

Don’t trans people prefer to be referred to as just woman and accepted as actual Women

Show quote history

No because that would be denying scientific fact, and the vast majority of people just aren't that stupid.

Words were created to enable accurate description in communication. If I want to express the fact that a six foot man in a dress has just punched me, telling the police I was punched by a woman does not aid identification.

Words are for accurate expression and the general populace will use them for accurate communication regardless of what you or anyone else wants.

HelenaWaiting · 13/08/2025 07:07

Absolutely a wind-up.