To not understand the obsession with doing medicine

I can totally understand the obsession - if I'd known that it's (well was) a guaranteed job, earning £200K, then I would have done it, I often wished I had, I comfortably got the grades. I've worked as a scientist, a teacher and now work in tech and I've never earned more than £45K, I don't know how/where people get these jobs that earn more.

I'm from a working class family, first person to go to uni, both parents had learning difficulties (but very loving, I had a great childhood), so never did any qualifications and left school at 14/15. School was chaos (albeit with some really dedicated teachers), especially during the miners' strikes in the 80s. No significant adult in my life had a clue about jobs that clever people did.

I was this odd kid in my family who was extremely clever, and I just chose my favourite subject at school (chemistry) to study at uni. TBF, I absolutely loved it, and went on to do a Ph.D.

I tried to talk my DC out of medicine and my Asian clients could not believe I didn’t want my DC to do medicine!

In the back of my mind I still see the law conversion course and medical negligence as a viable pivot for my DC😂. DC doesn’t. But, it’s an option in my mind still!

My DC is enjoying their medicine degree. They love the course. Made loads of friends. They like interacting with patients, respect their tutors and medics on placements. Like others have said it’s a degree you really have to want to do. Some people in their degree year applied over 4 times over 4 years before they got accepted (and this was after doing a first degree in something else in some cases).

I believe the application process is really competitive still and trying to be more inclusive. They are trying to weed out nepotism in the medical degree application process at least.

If all goes to plan DC will be 22 years old (late August birthday) when they start their first FY1 job and being so young they still have options to pivot and change careers. This is how I see my role in their life now making sure they know nothing has to be forever and whatever happens changing careers is still viable. I’m always looking up law conversion courses! Currently trying to make sure they know if they want to intercalate at masters level this will limit choices of funding in the future if they do want to pivot away from medicine and pursue a masters in something else (I know I am a terrible mother).

I work at an all girls school and on the race question we do have a lot of Asian girls who are under a lot of pressure to do something medical (way more than other races) even when they’re really not suitable. One of the girls I’m really proudest of was ‘strongly encouraged’ to become a doctor and was neither interested nor scientifically that able. She wanted to bake, loved it, always bringing stuff in. She now owns a bakery ❤️

You say your daughter perhaps wants to be a speech pathologist : I note you’re in Oz but presume the differentials are similar. Top rate for very senior speech pathologist / therapist in Uk: £56k or so. Top rate for senior consultant with bonuses, pension contribution etc (nb public only, not private work) £200k.

Speech pathology is both a scientifically based qualification and caring role, same as medicine. If she has the academic ability, wouldn’t you encourage her to maximise her earning potential finding a niche that n medicine that ticks the boxes that speech pathology does? Cleft palate repair , ENT, audiologist?

I do some work in grammars and Indy schools with a high Asian % due to the areas. I see many kids who want to be drs/do medicine (and I don’t see the high flyers) so I’m guessing that often it’s a ‘parents’ thing

@SharpHazelDeer what is dds:passion? Should she move to another school to continue her education?
I don't get the ethnic expectations either

It is still common amongst Asian communities, doctors are revered. It’s bloody hard work! Most Doctors I know earn very well. They may complain but there is no shortage of holidays and private schools amongst the ones I know.

It’s seen as a solid and respectable career. I know in Asian communities dr or lawyer seem to be what they push for. Medicine does pay well, not the extreme salaries in some finance or legal professions but it’s still excellent, way above average, I know my friends are both earning over £100k as consultant (him) and gp partner (her) and their house definitely illustrates this.

I am surprised any doctors would want their children (particularly their daughters) to go into medicine - perhaps those that do reached their consultant/GP/private practice level a few years back.
It can be a wonderful career if that is your passion but the working evenings, nights and weekends, multiple post graduate exams, changing jobs every three to six months, moving round the region/country and that is if you are lucky/skilled enough to get that all important training number (yes lucky because you may be a good applicant but all depends on the number of training vacancies that year and number of applications in the region)

Yes it is difficult in any career to get a job but at least you don't have to reapply every three years

Why are you so upset about this?

She's 17 and wants to do speech pathology, shes hardly breaking the mould, Why wouldn't people ask whether she's doing medicine?

Do you secretly wish she WERE?

I went to that type of school (I'm now I'm my 40s).

I wanted to study biology, chemistry and geography at A Level and was called into the Headmistresses' office, who tried to talk me into switching out geography for physics as it was "such a shame I wasnt studying the 3 sciences".

I was from a working class background, there on an 'assisted place', and the first person in my entire extended family to go to university. Mum was DESPERATE for me to be a doctor.

I actually work in business development. Mum isn't aware that it's a career where you can earn as much as a doctor (I'm well paid), but I don't think she's ever quite gotten over it.

I think some people consider doctors to be this super race of human being! I know a couple and they're no brighter than anyone else - they were just very driven to achieve that singular goal.

I don’t understand the keenness -let alone nursing - not in our NHS. Imagine months of wait for a patient you’re worried about just to get a scan etcetc

As I said, it’s a cliche… but there is an element of truth in it I suppose.

This. I'm Asian and it's always been Law, Medicine, Accountancy or Business in my family. My siblings and I who ended up in Banking, Business owner, Accountancy and Law were seen as the successes. The one who worked in Admin....well not so much.
Private practice medicine, particularly in plastic surgery/beauty aesthetic treatments, is still verylucrative.

Yeah it must get annoying. I guess it’s this age old belief if you’re very academic you’ll study medicine. But plenty of careers out there. I think for women too, if you do want DC (not sure if my DD does or not) medicine is difficult once you’ve got to factor in childcare for shifts etc. Not saying women shouldn’t become doctors, but as someone who has spent the last 30yrs navigating childcare, I couldn’t have worked a job with shifts.

I think people advise/push on the basis of what they understand about a career path. Medicine, from the outside, can look like a very straightforward early career path: good A levels, medicine degree, trainee doctor, qualify, live comfortably ever after.

It looks like a 'safe' career option from the outside. There is also the perception that it is a good career option for women as it is perceived as being easier for women to take career breaks for starting a family.

Of course no one ever talks about men choosing careers which will allow breaks to spend time raising children, funny that.

You used to see the same with accountancy and law but these seem to have fallen out of fashion. Not perceived as worthy enough? For some reason women's careers are supposed to be worthy rather than financially rewarding.

When I was at school I was quite keen on the idea of medicine but I did work experience at a hospital and didn’t enjoy it at all. I enjoyed the surgery/pathology part but I just didn’t like interacting with the sick people. Sounds awful, but better I found that out before I did years of study.

I ended up doing law and working in medical negligence so that was a good compromise.

She could just say she isn't great with blood and doesn't want to be responsible for life of death decisions.

In Ireland and in our school this was a thing, it was assumed if you were top of the class you wanted to do medecine. It wasn’t a race thing (the few girls who were top were white Irish). Two of them wanted to be doctors since they were children but I always thought it was so weird to try to press it onto the others- it definitely seems like a profession you’d have to really want to do given the pressure, stress and the things you’d be seeing and doing!!

My DD is very academic (all 9’s at GCsE) and is asked this a lot (she is also mixed race asian / white). The answer is no, she doesn’t want to do it. She will go down a finance career route. I think with medicine, it’s a calling and you really need to want to do it. It’s also mega competitive, I see that from the uni group’s i’m in.

I mean, I can understand why it’s suggested.
Doctors once qualified can work for themselves and work pretty much anywhere. It offers quite a bit of flexibility for women if they want to become mothers and work part time. Also it’s quite common doctors marry doctors. Studying medicine means she will be mingling with matches that are as intelligent and ambitious as she is.

I think medicine has always been a very well-respected career, and until recently in the UK was regarded as highly secure and decently paid.

I am thinking about this a lot at the moment as I have a dd who wants to do medicine. We don’t have Asian heritage, but I think there has always been that cliche that Asian parents want/expect their children to have a career that has that security and commands that kind of respect. As an Asian friend of mine put it - ‘my parents wanted me to be a doctor, lawyer, or accountant. Anything else was viewed with suspicion.’ 😂

As I said, it’s a cliche… but there is an element of truth in it I suppose.

Off topic but my eldest dd who has just done a-levels (not for medicine - that’s her younger sister) is at a very academic london private. Every year the number of people applying for medicine drops - I think this year it’s only 3 or 4, when 10 years ago it would have been around 20 at least. A teacher said that’s down to 2 things - a greater understanding of the difficult challenges this career brings, and that a lot of doctors tend to ‘breed more doctors’ - and they are now becoming priced out of the private system 😩

It must be annoying if it's an assumption based on race. But it's good that many (of whatever race) are opting for medical careers given the very heavy demand for medical doctors, especially in rural and remote areas.