Old men sitting next to me

Why should OP lie? Her answer of 'No' was perfectly fine.

I’m annoyed for you. Well done for saying no. Keep saying no.

The only acceptable time for anyone to ask to share a table is when there are none left and to be honest I’d rather go elsewhere personally.

"I'm sorry, I'm waiting for a friend to join me".

Had one do that to me a few weeks back, but I was with my dad so I don't think it was in any way sexist. He asked if he could join us, and I said yes as I'm not really sure how you say no nicely in that situation. Had a fairly dull chat, mostly about traffic. I assumed he was lonely, and as it was a small village coffee shop and he was clearly a regular, I felt it was nice to be neighbourly. I don't like the thought of someone being so alone they have to ask random people for company. Though maybe he was just pushy and socially inept, who knows. But I'd rather suffer the latter than turn away the former.

If I was on my own I'd probably find it easier to say no though, especially as I'd have earphones in and almost certainly be engrossed in my tablet / laptop / book.

Did they become aggressive when you said no?

Some men do seem to think they are absolutely entitled to chat to any woman. Yes, absolutely. I've noticed this especially when travelling. Some of these guys think that womens' attention is a utility laid on by the local area, like streetlights or free wifi, and YOU are wrong, rude, and odd when you don't automatically comply. Turning nasty and aggressive when you say no thanks is a dead giveaway that it's intentionally controlling and creepy and not just a difference in social conventions or someone being out of touch with reality.

I don't think you can stop someone else from sitting at your table if there's a free space, but a reasonable person would take no for an answer (you might have been waiting for friends to join you, friend's gone to the loo, etc.) You can also get up and move (of course, you shouldn't have to). I would consider no longer going to that particular cafe as the staff made excuses for him after he verbally abused me. If that were a homeless person they'd have shown him firmly out within a minute age and doddering be damned; why not even faster for a misogynist actively pestering customers?

I wouldn't like this either. I'd definitely tell them no, especially with other tables free.

It seems like it's men (usually) feeling entitled to invade women's time and space.

Actually, when I go to a café alone I am just out for some peace and normally want to be left alone.

Plus it was explained away by staff when OP complained that he was old/doddery and therefore allowed to be verbaLly aggressive.

I think it's easy to decide what you would say but it can be different when it happens in real life.
Some years ago I was on a nearly-empty bus (I was the only passenger downstairs, there were people upstairs), when a man in a dishevelled state got on and sat next to me, despite all other downstairs seats being empty.
His first words were 'I've never hit a woman and I never will'...I could have responded with 'you would not need to, the smell of ammonia coming off your clothes would knock them out' but I didn't as I was trapped in my seat by him. So I made 'small talk' and told him I was going into town to buy something nice for my husband's tea. This did work and he did then move but it was a tense time.
Needless to say I don't have a husband and was going into town as part of my journey home.
Sadly sometimes we have to think of our safety rather than what we would prefer to say.

I can understand that some people, regardless of age or sex, might be lonely and want company, but it is not down to strangers to resolve that for them.

I was sat in an empty café with a friend. A middle aged man came over and just sat at our table with us. I said that we were having a private conversation, and he simply replied with "it is ok, I won't join in". We ended up moving.
In the same place, an elderly woman sat at my table and started going on and on about her health problems.
Another time, with a friend again, a lady sat with us and went on about her kids and about one was wanting a poo but "was holding it in". We were eating at the time. Her kid was standing on another table.

In another cafe (was almost empty), an older lady came in with who I assume was her small grandaughter and instructed her to go and sit "with the lady" (pointing at me) whilst she ordered food at the counter. I moved.

I have a friend who has perfected a piercing death stare that she uses when she thinks someone is going to sit with her. Maybe I should get some tips on how to perfect mine.

I reckon he was waiting for that response so he could call you a stuck up cow and then have some real life confirmation that all women are bitches when he shuffled into his local for his lunchtime pint and people would have to listen to him because it was real and happened to him just now in the cafe. He will miss out the bit that you were a young woman alone and there were many vacant tables because he knows that looks creepy, so he is probably right now, drinking a pint saying “who do they think they are these stuck up women”

That's not what the poster said, but yes, if I am happy with old women to share my table but not old men then that is entirely my prerogative and none of your business.

My point was we don't always know what we'll become when old, nor how we'll be perceived by others. Women and men.
Has that redressed the balance for you?
I'm not sure how you managed to think it meant anything else.

Also...'Typical' of what?

I wouldn’t like it either OP!

I agree it’s men feeling entitled to women’s time.

I would also be put off going back to a cafe where they had refused to step in when a man was abusing a woman customer.

I've never had anyone ask to sit with me if there were free tables. I'd have said, 'Why? There are plenty of spaces'.

They then have to answer 'Because I want the company,' or something else in which case you can decline and say, 'I'm busy' or 'I'm having some peace and quiet'.

It's a very odd thing to happen, imo.

OP yanbu.
Is it a local place to you?
Email the manager that you are not impressed with staff dismissing your harassment by another customer.

You should be able to eat your lunch in peace.

Sorry, I posted after reading:
Does this happen to anyone else
but before reading:
I am looking for incidents from people that it has happened to.
As you were.

🤔

All I would questionhere is your need to keep saying ‘old men’ I’m not sure why their age is relevant. You seem to enjoy using the phrase. I personally wouldn’t want to be hassled whilst eating alone by anyone.

I hate this kind of faux naivety on threads like this. We live in a society where there are gendered and age-related norms, expectations and behaviours. An 80 year old man is going to have completely different experiences and expectations than a 20 year old woman. And power dynamics are a thing - OP may feel very different if a 20 year old woman asked her the same thing as an 80 year old man.

There seems to be a subset of posters on here who feel it’s some kind of virtue signaling to constantly ask ‘but why did you mention their age’ or ‘why bring up their gender?’. When someone’s age or gender does play a role in the interaction. To pretend otherwise is just denying reality.

My sister was alone in a very full cafe in New York. An old man asked if he could sit at her table. The cafe was full so she said yes. He didn't try to have a conversation, but it turned out it was Rupert Murdoch.

I wouldn't be happy about this, but equally it has never happened to me either.
Maybe I give off vibes 😅

your opening question in your post was...

Does this happen to anyone else?