Drag Workshop at Kent Guide and Scout Jamboree

I loathe drag and have tried to get my head around how it ever came about. I believe it was originally rooted in gay culture, where men played with notions of gender stereotypes as part of being gay at a time when if you weren’t alpha male and straight you were rejected by society. I can see the trajectory of this. I can see this is to do with gay identity and a response to homophobia and is not rooted in misogyny.

But this is a far cry from encouraging boys in today’s society to dress up as women in a grotesque way and assume sexual poses. I think drag detached from its origins reduces it to misogyny.

I saw men that I know are straight married heterosexuals dressed as woman with balloons up their shirts in a recent float parade. I found their enjoyment of hamming it up as a big breasted woman utterly repulsive and grotesque. It sickens me actually. I can’t look at those men in the same way anymore because they’ve revealed something about themselves to me that I find disturbing. Our high school football team all did this. The idea my son could possibly one day be encouraged to think mocking women is OK just revolts me. Respect for women is really sliding.

Personally I can’t stand drag but the issue here is really about whether this was an appropriate workshop for children. It would be a totally different discussion if we were debating whether it is suitable for hen nights or whatever.

But why do they feel the need to dress as their perception of what a woman is, in order to do their act?

If they're skilled at singing, dancing, comedy, political satire, conjuring, making balloon animals, plate-spinning or whatever... why can't they do that without also appropriating the stereotypical appearance of the opposite sex?

Are you really telling us that they just appear on stage dressed 'as a woman' and then get on with their neutral act - without making any references or jokes about women or addressing their parodying of one?

Supposing I were a stand-up comedian or singer and I walked on to the stage to do my whole set dressed as a deep-sea diver, bee-keeper or fridge-freezer - and I made no mention whatsoever of that fact, or gave any reason for why I was dressed in that bizarre, highly unusual way... would that not seem extremely weird to you?

The Black & White Minstrels were talented dancers, so all should have been fine if they had just performed their dancing skills and entertained audiences in a normal, appropriate way - without half of them blacking up and basing their name and much of their act on the fact that they were culturally appropriating their gross stereotypical impression of black people.

I’d rather my sex class wasn’t mimicked in anyway by men at all ever. Thanks

That’s fine. That’s their business.

Why should they be part of portraying Scout’s and Brownie’s ‘inclusivity’ though?

Please no body tell me about Widow Twanky, by the way.

I have a number of friends who are drag acts … a couple are very famous ones. None of them hate women, they are all very much men (and are not interested in “gaining access to women’s spaces”), they are all gay, in no way predatory, and drag for work not for sexual kicks.

I'll be honest, since men started going hell for leather at women's only spaces, I can't even stomach panto dames any more.

The context has changed entirely within the last 10 years.

It's a sexualized form of entertainment, associated with nightclubs and drug culture. Big fat no.

I agree. Training children to see this as normal is a form of grooming, in plain sight. And what’s in it for the girls, seeing themselves mocked and parodied? It’s the opposite of inclusive.

I’m amazed that organisations like Scouts and Girlguiding allow this.

no drag is offensive is woman face in the literally sense. Black and White minstrels is a good comparison.

What exactly is ‘Drag’ inclusive of.

It's inclusive of creepy men getting their kicks out of other people watching them parody women by wearing 'sexy' women's clothes, unfortunately. They somehow manage to look disturbing and ridiculous at the same time. A bit like clowns can, I suppose.

What exactly is ‘Drag’ inclusive of.

It has nothing to do with any of the protected characteristics in the Equality Act.

This is wholely inappropriate for scouting. You should definitely report to HQ.

https://www.scouts.org.uk/contact-us/

😂

Honestly between this and the new look uniform adverts I have to wonder who is actually in charge here.

At this point who is actually signing their kids up for Scouts or Guides?

Do these women doing drag put on huge fake penses and fake body hair and make lewd jokes about men and their 'stereotypes'? Or do they do something else?

Comparing it to a minstrel show is incredibly offensive

As plenty of people have said on this thread, drag is usually very different from the likes of absurd panto dames or dressed up lads out on a stag night having a drunken laugh - although I still highly doubt that you'd get white panto dames or stag night groups 'blacking up'.

So much of drag is specifically targeted at ridiculing and mocking women, and making stereotypical comments and jokes, with women the butt of every one. Without it, there's not really any kind of act, if it's just a man wearing female-coded clothes and standing there; or telling 'safe', 'neutral' non-victim-based jokes (such as in the context of a panto script) - how would that entertain people for an hour? Who would go to the effort of dressing up so elaborately as a gross parody of a woman just to tell knock-knock jokes or make political statements?

Many of the vile names, much of the 'ooh, aren't women pathetic' characterisation, making deeply misogynistic statements "but it's fine for me to do so, because I'm dressed 'like a woman'", commenting on how 'women smell fishy' - or just using the word 'fish' as a synonym for a woman.

You really don't find any of that offensive?

Safeguarding red flags all over this. I am shocked that anyone in their right mind thought this was appropriate.

Totally this!! And in general, people don’t know/understand the difference.

Encouraging minors to engage in sexualised behaviour is grooming. I acknowledge other concerns about this event but I thinking it's also a safeguarding issue. Anyone arguing that this is acceptable because it's "inclusive" should not be trusted to protect the interests of children.

Women can do drag. Both as drag queens and drag kings. Chappel Roan, Lady Gaga, Elvira... very famous women who embrace elements of drag culture.

Young boys have always dressed up as women. From putting on their sister/mom's bras and dancing around the house, to the theatre, to stag nights, to charity dress up

Comparing it to a minstrel show is incredibly offensive

Ask them if they're thinking of booking the Black & White Minstrels next time. And then maybe an act that mocks disabled people the following year.

Doesn’t look like any Drag Kings were there looking at the pictures. Irrelevant really. Children should not be posing in bras to mock girls and women. Adults can do what they want.