To think indecision is bloody rude

That’s great, that’s what i need in my life choices within a defined parameter I can do. Open ended ‘what do you want for breakfast?’ I just can’t do,

As someone who has near constant decision paralysis, I do quite often say "whatever you want", "whatever you're having" etc because I literally can't make a decision (I'm not saying your family have decision paralysis, I'm just trying to give my own perspective). I know I'm actually inconveniencing people when I say these things, rather than helping.

I wouldn't say it's rude, but I can understand why it would become annoying. Ultimately, if they continue to say these things, I would say "okay!" and literally give them exactly what you're having. If they complain? Tough luck, they should've made a decision rather than relying on you to make one.

Would it help if you gave them 2 options, like things you know everyone would be happy with? Rather than asking a completely open question, such as "what would you like to eat/drink/do?"

Then you don’t sound like them - if you assist with the general decision making / planning for the day, not necessarily by making the decisions but giving information that helps others make a decision, that still helps generally. It’s the bland ‘follow along behind’ with no input at all that is hard to deal with, when what I really want to do is give everyone a nice time.
If you give useful info that can help shape a decision, or are enthusiastic when it’s something you’d like to do or have enjoyed, then that isn’t annoying at all!

I have ADHD, quite possible he does. You sound like you have experience of caring for someone with a severe learning disability, so I won't be nasty in response to a spiteful comment. Go well.

If I am hosting, I would tell you we usually have cereal or toast for breakfast, and whether there was a particular cereal you liked me to buy.

On weekends we used to get stuff like crumpets or croissants, do I'd ask whether they would like some too so that I know how much to buy.

Well maybe not, but if I say I’d like bacon and eggs and mushrooms and they were thinking more a bowl of cereal then I end Mortified mortified and embarassed. I don’t know the rules of other people’s houses. I don’t know what’s a normal breakfast or where the tea towels live. This makes me anxious as hell. And that means my ability to decide things is out the window.

just trying to give some perspective as an autistic person who is probably very annoying!

this I can see is annoying, As I’ve said I’m possibly one of those people inadvertently, when I thought I was being polite. But I wouldn’t not say if I had a bad foot or whatever. And I definitely am always enthusiastic.

Except, you know full well oysters and champagne is not a realistic option.

My inlaws have just been and gone, and MIL has a very limited diet due to allergies, so she usually gives me a list of things to buy before they visit.

FIL on the other hand is the total opposite and I find it annoying because even if he has what he's requested, he will see what's on the other person's plate and decide "Oh, I'd like a bit of that", change his mind and regret his decision.

The worst was when he was deciding what to have for lunch overthe Christmas period and there were lots of leftover type things that I suggested, but then afterwards he announced he'd done his duty. Asking what he meant, he said he didn't particularly like what he had but was helping us finish it off. I didn't see ot that way because someone who does like it would have been happy to have it instead!

I actually hate it when hosts ask things like ‘what would you like for breakfast?’! ‘Oh actually I’d like oysters and champagne- oh you don’t have that??’ A good host should just suggest something with an alternative option if needed.

My (absolutely lovely) in-laws are awful for this. They ask what we want for every meal as if they’d be able to pluck our wildest desires out of the air. Surely you’ve already got something planned???

Why the ever loving fuck do you think someone should do this without being paid as some kind of PA? What you're describing is the work a companion might do for someone with a severe learning disability, not a functioning adult.

It's not. 'Going with the flow' as my relative like this claims, is lazy and forces a lot of mental labour on everyone else. We have to plan, make the decisions and hope we get it right.

It's so fucking annoying.

I have this with my in-laws. They are absolutely lovely and usually just don’t want to be a bother, but I find it so draining having to make yet more decisions for others, especially as they are adults who are capable of deciding what drink etc they want.
I have told them that I have known them for 15 years, the time to be extra polite and pussyfoot around each other has passed a long time ago and I’d much rather them be honest and upfront, I won’t think bad of them!
I’ve started to object and say that I don’t want to make that decision for them- so they are getting better at the drinks questions.
Next I need to work on their ability to convey useful information to help plan a day.
When I say, how are you feeling today, we were thinking about doing X, Y or Z, what do you think? They just say they don’t mind. They won’t tell us if they are feeling particularly tired or their foot hurts etc, to enable us to tailor the day to what they could handle and enjoy, instead they will go along something that sometimes doesn’t work for them, as they did not tell us anything that would assist with the decision making, and later we find out they struggled the whole day, and then we feel bad.
Also, when you want someone to have a nice time and enjoy themselves, and they make suggestions that you think they might really enjoy, they give the same ‘I don’t mind’ or ‘whatever you want to do’ answer - there is no enthusiasm, no encouragement, no positive response, that you end up wondering whether you got it all wrong and they don’t actually like that, or whether they care at all. You start to wonder why you continue to make an effort to find something really nice, when they give the same response about a trip to the shops!

Absolutely don't give them a choice. It's kind of you to provide anything. Just say, "THIS" is what I'm making and leave it at that!

I agree!

Do you have my mum visiting? I get really frustrated. As I explained to her last time by making no decision she is telling me that she does not care enough to make a decision and is saying I should do all the work there. This time though I just did not ask and decided myself. Treated her more like the kids rather than adult like my husband and I who is involved in decision making and it went much better.

I would argue that being raised to think your needs and wants are not important is in itself a form of trauma.

It’s also pretty common in autistic people who struggle with social interaction. For me, I know what I like and what I enjoy doing very well…but I also know that no one else likes to do the things I like. I learned very young that the things I wanted to do were not socially acceptable, so I learned to just mirror what other people liked. It’s like I’m a different person depending on who I’m with. But then when you mix my groups? I don’t know what to do.

anyway, the point is for those of us who just don’t really get social norms and cues and rules that going along with everyone else is how we learn to survive and navigate the world.

@puemue

I am not sure if anyone else has said this, but sometimes this is to do with not knowing your own mind, to an extreme extent. So, like social chameleons, they change and their opinions change depending on who they are with. Sometimes they attach what people want and tastes to being "good" or "bad". So if someone who is "good" likes turquoise, the person may like turquoise for as long as that person is around or in their memory. Mirroring. I think that it is to do with trauma or neglect in childhood, not having had an adult with whom you had a connection who cared for you who helped you navigate the world and to understand your place in it.

This seems plausible in some cases (and is sad and depressing) but surely not all of the "I don't mind" people can be the victims of neglect or trauma?

I've observed that the majority of people who do this are women, not men, and I can't help thinking a lot of it is women having been raised to think that they aren't important, their opinions, needs and desires aren't important and that the best thing they can do to get on in life is to blend in, make as little noise as possible and fit in with what other people want.

I have several relatives like this and it drives me mad .
When I went on holiday with my SIL she couldn’t make a decision to save her life .
Shall we go for something to eat?
answer- I’m easy .
What do you want to drink?
answer- whatever you’re having
Shall we watch the show ?
answer - if you want .
This carried on for the whole 2 weeks we were in Jamaica. It was so tiring . Please just have an opinion , make a suggestion or a decision.
it was similar when we went to Cyprus with my mum and her husband. In the end I would get up and ready and would announce that I was off to the swimming pool for the day and they were all free to join me if they want . They often chose to do their own thing which was good cos I was fed up doing other people’s thinking for them !

I am not sure if anyone else has said this, but sometimes this is to do with not knowing your own mind, to an extreme extent. So, like social chameleons, they change and their opinions change depending on who they are with. Sometimes they attach what people want and tastes to being "good" or "bad". So if someone who is "good" likes turquoise, the person may like turquoise for as long as that person is around or in their memory. Mirroring. I think that it is to do with trauma or neglect in childhood, not having had an adult with whom you had a connection who cared for you who helped you navigate the world and to understand your place in it. Behaving like this as an adult can be a way of controlling and managing their environment because the human connections which should have been there weren't and aren't there, or aren't working as they should, so control is needed.

I think that another way of looking at it is as people who don't develop "theory of mind" - the developmental point at which you understand that you and how you think is different from (and not necessarily better or worse or more right or more wrong than) other people. So these people might grow up and not know themselves at all and not know what they like or don't like truly. And they may have been brought up to believe that knowing what you like is arrogant or self centred (wrongly). And starting to change can be challenging as letting others get to know them and getting to know others is basically forming connections and if they are someone who has never had that, it will be challenging.

I think that the way to reverse this mindset incidentally is to start small, get to know your favourite things, your favourite colour, which will always be your favourite colour, think about how you really feel about small minor things and then start to branch out. And get to know others at the same time.

People have mentioned ADHD but symptoms of the above can look a lot like ADHD, it may be that ADHD is not the whole story.

It’s not passive aggressive they’re trying to not be an inconvenience

I agree! It drives me mad. I hate having to make decisions for other people.

If I am making a cup of tea, it’s no more effort to coffee instead.

Even my husband, I was going to the shop he asked me to get him a bag crisps. Which ones? I asked. Any!!!! Beef, hula hoops, skips, salty ones!! Hot ones!!! There are too many choices I need to know what. Or at least 2/3 to choose from.

Surely you just don’t befriend or date such people? There are lots of people out there who do like getting their own way all the time and being allowed to make all the decisions who are compatible with an extremely easygoing person.

It would not occur to me that they would worry it was a bad choice, no. Genuinely had not entered my head until you just said that. As for wanting to know I was into it, I would say thank you and I enjoyed it and all that stuff and I would make sure they knew I was grateful they’d gone to the trouble for me.

DF and I are indecisive. Here's my tuppence

When planning the trip in advance send some options and follow up to ask them what they like the look of

Keep it flexible e.g. a booked day, then a non planned day. Make sure anything is cancellable if there is illness.

Plan the next day the night before - don't try and plan it in the morning.

Don't ask what would you like to do - you could ask how much energy do you have, do you feel like walking far etc.

Give no more than 3 options, do express a preference for one of them (what's exciting about it), but tell them it's their holiday too.

You are showing them where you live so be proud to show them. Show them simple things you enjoy, rather than big special days (though nice to have those)

In terms of food and drink, let them know what you've got at the start, if they say they don't mind then just say try this. If they seem to like things stick with those. Bring in something new now and then 😂

If they say 'it's a shame we...' or 'we could have...' use that feedback next time go back to that place and do what they expressed interest in doing.

None of this may help but I've been visiting DF for a few years and we've learned these things.