Train etiquette

Trains are a nightmare with stupidly short trains and long waits between trains. That's why so many people are stressed with it. In so many areas, it's simply not fit for purpose anymore. And that's before the inevitable delays, cancellations, etc which are commonplace, especially at weekends and worse on Sundays.

How much noise can little toddler hands on a table make?

Oh, you’d be surprised

Public transport is for everyone - I don't think anyone is denying that tbh. As for the drumming, nope, I cannot stand repetitive noises - that's why I take headphones though, as it's my issue. I always smile at babies/toddlers and their parents too, but I don't necessarily think a parent is automatically more entitled to a seat than any other random person (whose situation we don't know).

You say that but then on the Elizabeth line, where there are doors that make it clear where the train will stop, people have naturally taken to forming quite orderly queues. If they painted the lines so that you knew where the doors would be on other train platforms I think British people probably would queue. No idea why we don’t do it because it makes things far more pleasant.

You shouldn’t have been pushed, but you should have folded your buggy in advance.

You say you don’t expect special treatment but you’re clearly pissed off no one gave you a seat until you demanded one!

I agree. I was just saying that train companies are generally aware of how busy it can get.

I'd have loved to sit near a cheerful active baby playing the drums. How much noise can little toddler hands on a table make?

Public transport is for you and your baby as much as anyone else. You were right to ask for a seat. I'm glad you got one. If people travel on a train they should be prepared for proximity with humans of all ages and sizes, and should bring noise cancelling headphones if noise bothers them. Babies will cry and babble - can't be helped.

Southeastern have a pretty useful "how busy is my train" timetable

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/plan-your-journey/usual-seat-availability

I travel by rail quite a lot and find it good - especially for trains coming from London. The school summer holidays will skew it a bit, though

I live in Ramsgate and the London coastal trains in summer (both ways) are well known to be extremely busy. It can be a scrum getting on and any hesitation will mean people will push past you, I'm afraid. In general, though, folks are quite reasonable

I, personally, sit in aisle seats if I can because of ack and leg issues.

That is true but without a conductor at every door they can’t control who gets on at what stop and with what accessories. Sometimes my bus home is completely full before it’s left the first stop, really annoying but not the bus company’s fault that everyone got on and there’s no room for me

Public transport, unless you paid for first class you aren’t guaranteed a seat.

Japan is certainly another.

Interesting, seems civilised. We don't have such as system in the UK though, so it's unreasonable to expect the behaviour that comes with that.

You sit near it presumably? Why would you lose your seat? Wheelchair user comes on, buggy is folded/moved out to aisle/moved to create more space for wheelchair, you and toddler sit back down, or toddler remains seated while you sort.

chances are the space won’t be needed by a wheelchair user anyway, but I check with the guard as they will know if a disabled person has booked travel assistance.

Nope.
Sweden is one country.....awaiting the list of 'other countries'. Also not sure how busy Swedish trains are.
It's not that I think the pushing is good, but it's what's always happened. People haven't always expected unfolded buggies/pushchairs to be accommodated either.

In the places that I’ve been to in East Asia (Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan) there are queue lines painted onto the platform at train stations. People line up in neat queues to get onto trains. I got on a lot of long-distance trains in Japan this April and did not see a single instance of someone queue jumping or shoving, neither among the Japanese or among foreign tourists.

People will cram onto busy metro and commuter trains when they are insanely full but they don’t jump the queue. If you don’t want to get on a super busy train you hang back to let people who want to cram in go ahead and then you get to be at the front of the queue for the next one. It’s not a free-for-all.

I think if you're travelling by train regularly, you need to develop a slightly thicker skin. It's a shame that you had a bad experience and people can be very rude, but really you're lucky that someone gave you a seat and I find it odd that you're complaining about it being a table one.

People don't like kids because they're unpredictable, a little bit messy and don't sit in the sullen silence that most travellers prefer on a train journey. That's not your problem, that's theirs. Your child is entitled to take up space and make a certain amount of noise in the world he lives in, and if that makes other people cross, that's on them.

I travel regularly with two kids on a train by myself so having two adults would be a real luxury. It's not pleasant but you divide and conquer - one person takes the child, the other one deals with the buggy/bags. When trains are busy, I find it more relaxing to sit in the corridor space with my kids where they can walk about a bit, even if it means we have to sit on the floor.

This is the most batshit thread I've read in a while. The minor change in heat must be getting to people, the argumentativeness and vitriol on this thread is unreal.

In fairness the high speed trains from St Pancras are usually either 12 or 6 carriages. Southeastern trains are notorious for cutting it down to a 6 carriage whenever possible. They don't seem to have any knowledge of school terms, don't seem to do any planning around large events etc.

However if you know this you can plan for it. It could be if op waited an hour she'd have got a 12 carriage train and would have had loads of room

How would I vacate it? That would mean the train gets full the further we travel and I’d risk not getting a seat. Then I’d have to move toddler mid snack, risk not getting seat and have a toddler kicking off because I’m moving him while eating.

No that is just dumb and created unnecessary hassle. I am not disabled so I wouldn’t dream of using it. What you do is your choice.

“They did the same for parents with buggies”

Did you miss that bit?

can you confirm that your buggy was already collapsed when the train arrived?

If not, that is the etiquette you are looking for. Be ready to board the train with buggy collapsed.

I took a busy train yesterday and I too was annoyed by people sitting in the aisle seats, so you have to ask them if you can sit in the window seat next to them

To be fair, trains are overcrowded a lot of the time. They're not unaware of this.

You might think it was obvious, and it would be to me, even without the lanyard and ear defenders, but I guarantee to many it wouldn’t have been obvious. It doesn’t excuse their reactions but plenty wouldn’t have known, or be those folks who think parents make it up to excuse bad behaviour.

I don’t think it’s accurate to say you can’t stop an NT toddler from banging on the table though. Distraction works quite well.