Labour reviewing school admission criteria

Same. My dad and both my brother and I went to grammar schools. Tutoring wasn’t even a thing in those days. Ironically a girl in my class whose parents were both teachers failed her 11+.

I simply think all schools should be of an equally high standard, but they’re not. Government using equality policies as a fig-leaf for many schools being rubbish environments for kids - eg the secondary in Adolescence - although many are good. This policy wouldn’t cure that.

You have absolutely nailed it there.

I wish, we live in an affordable part of zone 4 London, the schools fees are relatively modest (in the grand scheme of fees) and yet the roll has fallen considerably, many have exited due to the additional costs. I suspect this policy will run at cost to the state once EHCP vat, exits to the state etc. and those who won’t pay vat for 3 years are considered. I’d also be keen to know the amount it’s raised vs. cost the state and also the number of teachers recruited? Since these were key to the flagship policy.

I also think that our political system mitigates against investment in education. We elect politicians for terms of 5 years. So they are looking for strategies where they can show a positive result in that time frame, for which they can take the credit.

Investing in education would take 20 or 30 years or more before a positive change is seen - multiple election cycles. And it is a very expensive intervention to do really well.

So cosmetic changes appeal, that don't require a big injection of cash, and are designed to appeal to target groups of voters, at the expense of people who might be less likely to vote for your party.

It is a great shame, because education is such a potent force for change for the better.

Although, you could argue that some politicians would find it to their advantage if the electorate were not very well educated.

You must be in some ultra rich area. That's not the case for most schools.

Again, even reduced amount, we're still talking about over a billion - where is this money? what exactly is being done to improve, you know, to add something, to education?

I had a council assisted place to an independent school in the 70s. My mum had to buy my uniform at huge cost - and a lacrosse stick! - but the transport fees were paid for.

My family were extremely poor - and we were technically homeless for 2 years, when I started commuting to my posh school, far away. I don't know whether we would have had the equivalent of free school meals though, because my dad was in work, albeit not well paid. Also, my mum started finding herself work in this period, to try and sort out our housing situation, so had we been claiming any benefits to which we might previously have been entitled, it may well be that we would have then lost entitlement.

My parents had a particularly wide choice of schools, because the 11+ still existed, and I scored top of some region (this was only vaguely recalled by my mum decades later). They did not make full use of this offer, as they were determined that I had to go to a Catholic school, which effectively meant beng taught by nuns [help].

Though I hated the convents at the time, I did get a pretty good education overall.

The 11+ seems to be looked down upon now, but the principle of identifying clever kids from poor backgrounds and helping them achieve their potential - that seems like a good idea to me, especially as it changed my life, really.(and yes, there is a whole conversation about how that can best be done and there are many people who think it can't be done very effectively )

Instead of changing admissions policies they should be focusing on improving/overhauling our outdated education system. All children should be able to go to a good school with qualified teachers. Instead we have a recruitment and retention crisis and lots of our children will be in classrooms with poor quality teachers or completely unqualified staff come September. That’s a bigger issue than admissions but let’s tick a little
box for equality and pretend we are doing something instead!

I am not sure what is it?
so the criteria of “living close would be removed” and instead there will be a “financial situation” to look at?

I mean…in essence, school that don’t have any need to assess for entry should be open to all children…
I am doubting it will change the scenery that much?

That’s simply not true, two thirds of parents at our school paid fees in advance, meaning the richest school parents won’t pay vat for 3 years. Does that sound even vaguely fair to you? Kier Starmer said he would use forestalling laws to ensure these parents still paid the vat, to date this hasn’t happened. Unless you are aware of any update?

Sounds like social engineering

It’s interesting that things have changed (but of course, you are probably in a different area to where I was as well!)

My older children’s school was admittedly a sort of feeder for one of the grammars, even though that doesn’t exist I know, but it was a state school that was on the same grounds, same faith as the grammar. You basically sent your kids there in the hope they would get in to that particular school, so the school helped facilitate that.

It’s so odd if you are in a grammar area that the schools aren’t pushing it. I’m going back to 1992 when I talk about myself, but it was just the done thing, we all took the 12+, there were 6 grammars all in a smallish area.

We love in a grammar area and I can confirm there is absolutely no prep for the 11+ done at our kids school. In fact the class are way behind where they should be in the curriculum as we have so many kids struggling with SEN and no support so the teachers are just firefighting. We asked about 11+ at the last parent teacher meeting. Nobody had any idea about it.
We've done our own research directly with the grammar schools and have bought books to practice at home. Honestly though I don't think I want them going to a grammar. I think I'd rather they were in the local comp (ideally in the top set so they manage to cover everything they should do) because I want them to be able to walk and have local friends. I genuinely think that is more important. The behaviour is pretty good in our local school.

Well I took the 11 plus 60 years ago a d can't remember if we did anything special to prepare for it. Obviously we did English and maths. My kids schools didn't do any preparation no practice papers or anything. Not an area with lots of grammars, 3 in the LA area.

Specialist schools are not exempt. Where did you get that idea from?

This is children who haven’t got a place at a defined specialist only school. This is kids given places at private schools that can accommodate them. Not private specialist schools.

Specialist schools paid by LAs are exempt.

What are you trying to say? that there's no money?

How do they determine who qualifies as middle class?

Defining and measuring "socio-economic background" is incredibly challenging. Is it based on income, parents’ occupations, living conditions, or the jobs and education levels of grandparents and even great-grandparents? Would you need to map out your entire family tree to determine who’s the poorest or most middle class, complete with proper documentation? It might demand a whole new bureaucracy to handle—and let’s face it, parents would find ways to game the system. (If there’s a loophole, someone will exploit it before you can say “catchment area.”)

This threatens families who have worked hard and saved to live near a good school. Many people in so-called "middle-class" areas are already struggling to make ends meet, stretching every penny to cover rent or mortgage just to stay within the catchment area. Telling them their child might lose out to someone from further away due to a "socio-economic background" assessment is more likely to breed resentment than fairness.

All these issues could be resolved if everyone opted for homeschooling instead of relying on politicians from either side, who don't prioritize the best interests of any group. However, politicians might respond by imposing extra taxes on homeschooling parents.

I didn’t have tutoring either. No one I knew did.

But I grew up in an area with lots of grammar schools. The 11+ (it was 12+ then, in that area), was just something you did. We did practice questions in school, we were just taught it all in school anyway. I always assume it would still be the case in grammar school areas? It was with my older two. They did the mock exams at school, in school time, just as I did. Everyone just took it.

I don’t live in a grammar area now. My 11 year old certainly didn’t do anything close to 11+ work at primary school. She was the only one to take it at her school, no one could remember the last time a child from there was put in for it.

She had one group tutoring session a week for 11+ during year to get familiar with the sort of questions that she would be facing and so she could do a mock exam. She really enjoyed the tutoring as that’s the sort of maths she loves doing (If I didn’t know better, I swear she was swapped at birth, I don’t know how I birthed a child who is so good at maths!)

If children in my area wanted to do it, they would need a bit of tutoring just so they would know what to do. Not the schools fault - from year 4, DDs teachers recommend tutoring for her anyway as they couldn’t keep up with what she needed, they were so busy with the poor behaviour of children in class, they were worried dd would drop behind or get bored. A lot of the more academic children in her class had tutoring just so they didn’t miss out. They were basically being used as unpaid, mini TAs for the badly behaved kids at one point and not actually being taught in school. We had to put a stop to that.

🤣🤣 you were too quick. Impressive though

I went back and changed. Funny it assumed I was writing Biden though

Oh no! You’ve edited.

The idea of a “tax Biden” is wonderful.

Your tax goes into a doddery, incoherent, useless, failing system.

We really need to sort out more state schools for children within this category.

My kids all went to grammar schools with no tutoring and so did I and my siblings. My parents wouldn't have even thought about tutoring