To think we’ve lost the concept of men being men and women being women, and society is worse off for it?

A list for yourself is absolutely fine if it works for you.

The issue is when you claim you don't know what to do and then expect someone to make lists and organise for you instead of making an effort yourself, especially when we're talking about basic stuff such as housework.

I am one. But I don’t suddenly change behaviour in relationships and leave it to my partner….

Yep. That’s about it.

I have no interest in what regressive stereotypes dictate I ‘should’ be doing by virtue of having tits and a vag. I live the way I want to live.

Incidentally, the notion that women’s entrapment in the domestic sphere is ‘traditional’ is false. It’s a comparatively modern concept, mostly stuck within the mid-twentieth century courtesy of the marriage bar. It’s also a luxury belief. Women in war time largely worked for the benefit of the collective. And working-class women have always worked.

‘Women are carers’ has about as much validity as ‘Scots are dour’ or ‘Germans have no sense of humour’. Regressive, inaccurate stereotypes are just that.

No need to be rude and judgmental about housewives- they aren’t servants, and if you can’t find something that is of value to do to fill up a week then that says more about you.

Life is busy and many people, irrespective of gender, operate better with tangible lists and tasks to tick off.

Oh…OP made one post and vanished.

Of course.

I consider myself to be feminine and my 6’ former rugby playing DP to be masculine, but I would rather chew my own head off than be a housewife and we split chores equally (though he does more of the heavy lifting). We both do the garden. He takes care of the cars. I do a bit more cooking. He wouldn’t like me to give up work because he knows I’d be bored to death in a week. I would take absolutely no joy in being the house ‘servant’. We are partners. There is no power imbalance in our relationship.

Also what on earth does a woman “being a woman” mean. I am a woman because I am one. I was born a girl and became a woman. That’s it.

Because far too many men are useless and unfortunately some women think it is their job to attempt to fix them with lists and schedules when actually, the issue is more with those men simply thinking that childcare, mental load, organising etc is the woman's job.

How trad are we talking? My Grandmother's and great grandmother's always worked so I dont have any example of SAHMs in my family going back 100yrs

This is a great point and ignores the role of class. Women in my family have always worked outside the home. They had to.

Well bully for you- many others clearly DO benefit from such help, or why are books like this being written and selling so well?

I’ve never said no to hanky panky - it makes me happy to make him happy and he enjoys making me happy too.

Good Lord 😂

People are free to follow gender roles if they want.

We have lost nothing by people having greater freedom to shun societally imposed gender roles that do not suit them / their strengths / their interests.

I would be utterly miserable if I had to adhere to female gender roles and glad to live in a society where I don’t have to.

We both work full time and what pp describes is nothing like my household. It is peaceful and we don't need defined gender roles to know what we're doing because we both just get on with it. We don't find it difficult to have downtime and pursue other interests either.

No lists or schedules either. If something needs doing, one of us just does it and it works out to be about 50/50 with us both chipping in.

No. Hard disagree. It’s great that things have changed. I don’t want them to go back. I have a DS and I want him to feel comfortable showing emotion etc.

The first time I heard ‘Samaritan’ by Idles, I cried. It’s unfair to never allow boys and men to be vulnerable.

I'm so glad that most women don't feel the need for such exhausting rigidity or the stress of having to fit into such a black and white box. Good for you and all that but I'm so glad this antiquated notion has been killed off with fire. Also, a woman can be just as attractive with no makeup, a messy bun and wearing jeans and a t shirt, more so in my opinion.

Pete Hegseth is that you?

Anyone else singing Gett Off?

Gender roles are nothing but outdated stereotypes.

People are people.

I personally don't understand all these different genders as that contradicts moving away from gender stereotypes and actually supports it my insisting ln being labelled.

We don't need labels.

Doesn't need your validation. And you can judge of course but keep your judgement to yourself. I've seen women on here lectured and ridiculed for holding traditional views. We might not agree with them, but if they're happy let them get on with it.

You enjoy your Netflix! Well done for not letting anyone run you completely ragged!

You probably say that because your husband is one of the good ones. A lot of men are just another child to raise that only wants to contribute 50% financially too. And no, is not the woman's fault for not choosing correctly. What I see on the dating scene (not first hand) is that no one wants to offer the bare minimum either....

How trad are we talking? My Grandmother's and great grandmother's always worked so I dont have any example of SAHMs in my family going back 100yrs.

My DPs had a fairly traditional marriage, he had the big corporate job with separate finances, she had a part time nursing job and was also expected to do everything else: cook, clean, garden, ferry us about to school/ clubs etc. The resentment grew in the marriage and as they approached retirement, it was clear he wasn't prepared to do anything at home and she divorced him as was sick of being a maid and housekeeper.

As a result, I ended up working FT whilst raising the kids and sharing the household roles and finances with my DH. Our marriage is much stronger than theirs was. So in my experience and anecdotal data of 2 relationships, YABU.

This. I have zero idea what OP actually means.

I do wish we could go back to a time where an entire family could live on the income provided by one of two parents. Because i think life is more harmonious all round if there are two (or more) adults sharing round the clock child care and an understanding that raising children is, in itself a job. The crazy outmoded system we have now where school ends at 3.30 but two parents are expected to work until 5 or 6pm then commute home just to be able to cover the mortgage, is insane. But that has nothing to do with sex or gender. It is economic.

I’m not unhappy. I work part time, I couldn’t not work, I would go loopy. Kids are much older. We’ve made it work. Nowadays I couldn’t go back full time, not because of traditional ideals but because I’m getting old and lazy, I’d much rather sit on my arse and watch Netflix from start to finish than work full time, have the ability to go to coffee with friends etc. Thankfully we are in a good position for me to be able to do that.

If a woman doesn’t want to work (I get no enjoyment out of going to work every day), but I get a heap of satisfaction from a clean home, a homemade meal and looking feminine, then why isn’t that lifestyle valid?

I’d love to give up work and be a home maker, but sadly that choice has been removed. I cannot afford to do that. So now I have no option but to work. We both have to work and that makes life more stressful. On the weekend, we both have to clean the house. We both had to look after kids (although grown up now) so no time for hobbies as a pp pointed out. I genuinely don’t see that as a ‘win’.

My sisters ex was a real waste too. Had my sister looking after him like he was some sort of princess. Completely unattractive.