To think we’ve lost the concept of men being men and women being women, and society is worse off for it?

It still contributes to Operation Let Them Speak, so there is that.

Ok, let's say there are some observable differences. Are they really born, coming from biology, or are they results of socialization within gender norms?
I hope you agree that at least partially it is learned, not born difference. Now, is this difference which is forced on men and women actually useful and fair?

I unfortunately only did that after responding.

I'm learning to clock the "see next", "see all" option before I bother to engage further. I see in this case that the Ploppalong Cassidy has plopped and run so I'll pass on this one.

AVERAGE GROUP differences.

There are plenty of papers on average group differences.

But an average is just an average. There is far more variability within groups than between them. Men are taller than women on average. It would be stupid to think this means every man is taller than every woman or all women are the same height and that height is short.

Before I am an average I am an individual and not one of my strengths is linked to my sex.

I completely agree.

So you think women and men are basically the same? You can't see any difference in what they are interested in in life? There's no point in arguing about this if you can't see a difference.

There really aren’t. I suggest you read Cordelia Fine’s Delusions of Gender.

Glad to hear you think society is not fucked up though! It's not my experience.

There are loads of psychology papers on how men and women differ in terms of temperament and personality traits.

I cannot think of one solitary thing my gender makes me “better at”.

There maybe so biological
realities around the creation of children but that’s it. And as somebody without kids not a single one of my strengths is linked to my sex.

I also think society is far from fucked up and think the 50s would be an awful place for me to be.

But there's no denying that society is completely fucked up now, right? Have you all missed that? And the man-bashing thing doesn't help. Sure, there were lots of negative things back in the 1950s, especially for women but we are still struggling and fighting for our rights to single sex spaces. Now, we barely have the right to call ourselves women! We all have to take the blame for this because the most vocal trans activist types are usually women. Women are erasing their own identity!!
Also, look at all the women-bashing that's going on here by (surprise, surprise) women! Why shouldn't someone decide they want to divide the family jobs in a traditional way if they want? By that I mean, one person earns the money, one person concentrates on the kids. If that works, what's wrong with it?
This pressure that women apply to other women is ridiculous. We are biological beings and men and women are not interchangeable. There are certain things that men and women are better at and happier doing and let them just do whatever they want. This remind me of that sketch Ricky Gervais did about someone seeing an ad on a notice board for guitar lessons and shouting 'but I don't want guitar lessons.' Fine if you don't want to divide the roles in a certain way but stop knocking other people's choices if that's what they want. Jeez, women are their own worst enemies!!

This is absolutely absurd perception.
The almost whole history of human kind finding things to eat was responsibility of everyone in the household. Actually, in many countries it is and was primarily women's problem, because they actively take care of children.

The golden age of US was one of the only eras where the mythical traditional patriarchate really meant that Mickey will be the one who will go and solve it.

I've read stories from current North Korea, which is technically patriarchal, but in effect women are the ones putting food on the table there.

So yes, that young woman isn't taking a stereotypically men's role, she is doing what women has always done, fighting for her family to survive.

I cannot believe no one has said this yet, but ok.. ... ( clearing throat, and taking a stance like when Prince George in the Blackadder series was taught by two actors how to make a speech): " The good old days when men were real men, women were real women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri".
(bow and exit left)

I am very familiar with the US and 100% agree. The US evangelical right also firmly has the UK in its sights. Politically, the Trump administration would do anything to drag the UK away from Europe as much as possible.

But then it sounds like it's your choice.
The whole point of feminism is to have a choice and full agency over your life.

Yes I think so too. Definitely seeing more of these posts, especially with the home education gang for some reason.

They really do need to bring back that 😂 emoji…why hello again!

I knew i'd find you here having wifey wars when I saw the title!

It wasn't a private conversation. People can respond to any comment they like, happens all the time on here.

You also engaged with me and even asked me a question when I ''interrupted''.

Riiiiiight…so no need really then to interrupt a conversation between two other posters which may be of some help to one of them which is utterly irrelevant to you then, is there? 😂

I'm not interested in reading the book. Doing it together is fine too but far too often, men expect women to do it all for them including the lists and organising.

I'm not at all defensive.

I think you should read Eve’s book for context. Her and her DH devised everything collaboratively, it greatly improved the running of their lives and their overall communication, and therefore their marriage. It was not about her doing all the list making.

It doesn’t sound relevant for you anyway, so why so defensive?

What do you think we've lost?

I'm not interested in going back to the 1950s, thanks. My life is infinitely better than my SAHP mum's.

🤣