To think we’ve lost the concept of men being men and women being women, and society is worse off for it?

You are putting this so much more politely than I ever could.

Yes how many women cant think for themselves and delude themselves to do it doesn't say much for their lack of brains

Yes how many women cant think for themselves and delude themselves to do it doesn't say much for their lack of brains

I think tradwife types who complain about feminism are hypocritical ingrates. They have the legal protections and social supports that have been given to them because of feminism and without those they could be brutalized by their husbands, boyfriends or random strangers with no chance of legal consequences. They would have no DV shelters or rape crisis centers to go to and wouldn't be able to have their own bank account, so they couldn't stash away money to make their escape. They would be forced to give birth when they didn't want to, even if they were 13 years old and had been raped by their own fathers. The list of advantages they gladly (but not gratefully) accept goes on and on. Without the influence of feminism it wouldn't be safe for them to live the tradwife lifestyle. So they take advantage of what feminism has given them while at the same time saying it's made things worse and that feminists are masculine, unattractive, aggressive, man haters, bla bla bla. Yet some people think it's wrong to "judge" their opinions. 🙄 When I see brown stuff coming out the back end of a bull, I will make a judgement about it, determine that it is indeed bullshit and I will say so.

Totally agree. Who the fuck actually wants the real world version of handmaids tale? Convincing women that their lives are somehow better while they are resigned to the kitchen and only useful when barefoot and pregnant while men should have all the freedom and power is disgusting and dangerous.

Actually, I know exactly who would want that. Men.

Ridicule is rude, but surely these things can be discussed and people can disagree with tradwife ideas without a anybody collapsing on a fainting couch or being triggered into a trauma reaction fgs. If people can't handle others disagreeing with their POV then why on earth do they post their opinions? If you open the door, you're inviting people to walk in. As long as those responding are civil and polite, who cares?

It isn't acting like a man to provide food for your child. The period of working class women exclusively sitting at home as soon as they're married to look after the house is just a short period in the history of humanity. And I say this as a SAHM for the last decade.

Why is this young woman with a 6 month old baby not on maternity pay? Why isn't her partner working? Was the baby planned? What has gone wrong? The nuance matters. Every situation differs. It might be his fault, it might not.

But either way, working to feed your child is the job of whichever parent needs or is better able to do it.

The fact that OP hasn't returned to the thread indicates that they have little of substance to say. If I'd stuck to this particular rule of thumb, my eldest child wouldn't have had food on his table or have been housed/looked after well. For him, I've provided everything that a man and woman would. I have a fantastic husband now, who is a hands on, wonderful father to our children and my eldest. Do I NEED him though? Hell no. Aside from producing sperm, I can do anything that a man is typically expected to do (in your world).

Spot on.

Of course they should, and they are free to express their preferences. Other women are equally free to have opinions about their preferences. Free expression works both ways or it doesn't work at all.

Ok then, how do their interests differ? I haven't seen you explain much really.

I said what they are interested in, not what they want. I've explained what I mean in more detail in the posts above.

What I want in life differs in no way to what my husband wants in life or other men I know. What is it you think women want vs what men want and what is the big difference?

^ i1950's stereotypes we're post war propaganda.

Concern of US conservative evangelicals exporting their ideas overseas is well-founded. I grew up largely in this world and this is absolutely the aim, stated overtly - I heard this many many times as a teen, and there's big money behind it. Male dominance backed by "God" and their "divine right". Anywhere that shows something different is evil, "against God" and to be conquered and burned. This is nothing new, they've been exporting this stuff since radio became a thing. Unfortunately the digital era is a boon.

I'll also add that I learned at uni (admittedly not in depth) that there's greater differences within the sex groups than there is between. Eg greater difference between man A and man B, than between man A and woman A. Anecdotally this is true within my family - DH & I don't really 'fit' traditional gender stereotypes, we're both different and similar to each other, and our boys are more different to each other than either are to their sister. Our daughter is mix of stereotype and anti-stereotype - she doesn't 'fit' either. Fortunately none of us really care - we are all male or female and the gender bollocks attached to those can take a running jump.

No they haven't indeed, but I think the danger of contagion is underestimated over here and I don't think it's paranoid of me to think that it is already creeping in.

US conservatives have not hidden this is what they think.

That’s not what you said. You vaunted a gender essentialist approach to the strengths of the genders.

None of this waffle detracts from what I said. Averages are averages. We are first individuals and none of my strengths are linked to my gender.

To be honest I'm not sure. A lot of these cultures - the ones DH grew up in included - have developed and westernized and that's caused a lot of issues. They're still in the process of becoming, as I suppose we all are. Though I would argue western cultures are on the downhill slide of unbecoming - all civilisations end, eventually, whether by internal collapse or takeover. So we're at different points in the process - very hard to compare them or say what advantage / disadvantage there is in the matriarchal set up. Except there seems to be more pragmatism, so this is just how we do things, rather than a special status or power conferred to one group over the other. The culture is collectivist, not individualist though, so that results in a very different lens through which the world is seen.

I do know as a teen entering Western society DH was bemused by the male obsession and control over breasts. Where he was women were topless (though not usually the white women). Breasts weren't considered sexual, the underside of the thigh was. Generally speaking men were hunter gatherers while women made the decisions. Western influence and development has overtaken a lot of the traditional male role, which has caused a decent amount of depression and malaise in men, but our knowledge of those impacts is limited to 25+ years ago.

My concern is that reactionary thinking may very quickly lead us to where this toxic bunch wants us: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/09/pete-hegseth-video-pastors-women-voting

That's what I've been saying all along. Men and women have to work as a team and divide the work whatever they see fit, whether that's traditional roles or not.

Those differences have fuck all to do with gender roles. As a pregnant woman I can tell you I am feeling my female nature every second of every day right now. Do I welcome my DH telling me he's going to step back from his job so I can keep on building my business? Absolutely. Do I think less of him as a man for doing that? Absolutely not! Do we have different parenting styles? Yes, they're complimentary and I respect his approach like he respects mine. I grow the kid. He's got facial hair. But we've got to be a team across the board so neither of us ends up prisoner of our biology and artificial societal expectations.

You're right. Men and women are more the same than they are different. But at the tails of the bell curve that's where the differences really matter. For example, if you picked a random man and a random woman from a bus stop and guessed that the man was more aggressive, you'd be right 60 per cent of the time. That's a difference but not a massive one. However, if you went looking for the 1 in 100 most aggressive people, they are all men. I suggest you read a bit about the concept of overlapping bell curves.

Another example: Men are more interested in 'things', women are more interested in 'people' on average. In fact, a woman has to be more into 'things' than 85 per cent of women, to be as into 'things' as the average man.
This is one of the most robustly demonstrated differences between men and women by psychologists.

There are also obviously physical differences- men are stronger and taller than women on average, they have a larger muscle mass on average and larger lung capacity on average. And genitalia obviously! :-)

But at the end of the day if you can't see differences between men and women then you are deluding yourself.

If that’s your level of argument, I can’t help you. Like I said, do some reading.

As a starting point, bear in mind that we can’t have the remotest idea of how men and women might behave ‘biologically’, without gendered socialisation, until we have a control group somehow raised to adulthood with no gendered socialisation.