Do people still judge single mothers?

There’s still IMO a stigma associated with the single mother who can’t even begin to support one child, but who goes on regardless to have more, and expects to be supported by the taxpayer.

Well done for proving that the judgement still exists

No but I judge absent non contributing parents

I guess I was single mothering wrong then. Mine has never been in trouble with the police, never had any issues with her during her teenage years and she now holds a Masters Degree....oh and DP didn't move in until after DD had left for uni, that was 15 years ago and in 6 weeks he is walking her down the aisle at her wedding.

FFS. Could you puruse the stereotypes any further?!

Plenty - and I would hazard a guess most - single mums bring up their children without police involvement, where their children achieve their academic potential and attend 6th form and then university. 2 out of 3 of mine are in/went to university and I've been single for 16 years with minimal involvement from their dad. The other is doing a trade apprenticeship and will out earn the rest of us, I suspect, within about 5 years. Most of us raise children who are polite, decent human beings with good values. Indeed, when they have seen their mother struggle, they have a good understanding of the value of money and what is needed to survive. I've worked full time for most of those 16 years, with seasonal and ad-hoc work on the side. Their father hasn't paid a penny. They all have a good work ethic, having worked since they were 16.

As for most single mums not staying single. Well, in my circles, those of who are single have remained that way. I'm no nun, but I have managed to separate my children's lives from my own emotional wants and needs. They haven't had men around at all - in fact, a recent dinner when a male colleague of mine came over to discuss some work stuff, my eldest's hackles were raised to such an extent that I feel I perhaps did the wrong thing. He is now struggling to accept that now they are no longer children, I will be pursuing my own life. He gets it on an intellectual level but admits he doesn't really like it.

If you pursue the single mum stereotype, sure, there'll be plenty of people who fulfill it. Don't forget many of us don't. And also don't forget that plenty of children in together families struggle, go off the rails, are rude, are involved with the police and don't reach their academic potentials. Why aren't you talking about them in such negative terms?

Some women still judge but I have found they often are less streetwise and quite traditional types and old fashioned. Not in touch with the real world. It is more the older generations tend to judge. Also those who have led a very sheltered life can pass comment.

Some people wrongly assume we have done this to achieve a council home too. Whereas I own my own home.

I was never abandoned by my ex but he became violent so he had to leave. He has always seen ds and paid modest maintenance until he was 18. We have always been civil.

Ds has never been in trouble with the police in reference to one poster above who knew women whose children had been and I have always been self employed working from home and ds has never been a 'latch key kid'.

Mainly the moneyed neigbourhoods can judge.

A fair few pity instead though. Single parents cannot really win.

My ex was raised by a single mum and he doesn't bother with our kids so ime it makes no difference

We all have different experiences. The men and child I know who had single mums raise them are no more respectful then the average bloke. Most had totally wild teen years with police involvement.
There is a single mum on the road I live on, she has two boys and they are an absolute nightmare, the mum openly admits she cant control them and they speak to her like shit on their shoes.
Most single mums dont stay single through the whole of their kids childhood either, they introduce new men to their kids or step brother and sisters. You only have to glance on here to see how shit that turns out for everyone involved.

Yes it has dropped, but the childbirth rate has also dropped significantly over the same period.

People do tend to get married or form a civil partnership when having children because of the financial protection it gives them.

@NotEnoughKnittingTime Nobody knows each other's personal financial details though. People just make assumptions. I live in an ex council house (that I own) and have a professional job that's fully remote with flexible hours (so I'm always there on the school runs, no wrap around needed). People probably think I'm jobless, in social housing and on UC.

I suspect if you don't claim benefits and are a single mother and you are fine. Claim benefits and you are a pariah.

Overall, the marriage rate decreased in that period though by over 10% which tells you that fewer people are getting married. The marriage rate has continued to decline since 2013. One might speculate, although I don’t have time to look this up, that fewer people want to follow the example of their parents in getting married because their parents’ marriages have not been such a shining example of emotional intelligence and loyalty as yours. it’s not rocket science to realise that people have a range of life experiences.

That's a very defensive comeback, understandably. However, I said nothing about blanket rules. I described it as a "risk assesment".

I did find someone who I'm very happy with and we've been together for about 29 years. Neither of us are perfect, and our parents weren't perfect either, but we are loyal to our parents and loyal to each other, and we work through any difficulties with emotional intelligence. That's not rare - the majority of marriages don't end up in divorce.

According to the Office for National Statistics, from the 2021 census:

• c59% of marriages that began in 1996 were still intact by their 25th year.
• c83% of marriages that began 2013 were still intact by their 10th year

Well, as I explained in a previous post, the reasons for a historical divorce aren't visible to outsiders, so it's a leap of faith to assume there is no damage - that's my instinctive inner risk assessment kicking in. We all have different attitudes to risk. I'm naturally cautious so would lean towards thinking one or both parents had flaws, with a high risk of inheritance through nature or nurture.

I've never been in a situation where I've met the perfect boy/man and later found out that his parents are divorced. I have been in situations where boys/men have slagged off their mum or their dad or their upbringing or their previous girlfriend pretty early on in the conversation, and in my book they are the ones to avoid. Anyone who can slag off their own parents to a virtual stranger wears their damage on their sleeve.

Yes, and men who slagged off former girlfriends too - another red flag in my book.

Not really, most of the single mothers I know were married and now divorced. There is one I sort of do as she’s on baby 4 with father 3 and that relationship is about to end too from the looks of things. Every conversation starts with ‘ as a single mum’ or ‘because I’m on my own with 4 kids’ etc and about how hard it is and own difficult father 1 or 2 are being so it’s tricky not to think she should get her shit together and stop having more kids….

@playdoughed

In contrast, an environment where parents work through their difficulties and stay together is healthy and positive. Some parents are able to do this, others aren't. Their children live through these experiences and learn from them.

Maybe. I guess it depends on your definition of "work through their difficulties". In principle I agree and in theory a couple going through a rough patch and emerging at the end of it with a genuinely loving and respectful marriage should be a good thing.

But, and call me cynical, in practice quite a lot of the time "working on the marriage" and "working through difficulties" in my experience is quite often a euphemism for the woman putting up and shutting up, sweeping stuff under the carpet and tolerating a sub-standard relationship for the sake of family harmony/the children/finances. Or just feeling trapped and unable to leave. Or just two people who no longer really like one another trudging along in resentment because they can't afford to start again.

A woman taking control and leaving a situation which is dragging her down or making for a substandard family environment is usually a positive message both for boys and girls. I'm not someone who believes that preserving the marriage or preserving a nuclear family is always the best outcome regardless of the circumstances. I've seen with my own eyes that women can do a lot better, and their children can thrive, as a single parent family. That doesn't mean they should leave a marriage rashly. But I know enough single mothers to know that usually they wanted to leave many many years before they actually did. It's not a decision people take lightly.

I completely agree that it is just as damaging. I haven't said otherwise.

In contrast, an environment where parents work through their difficulties and stay together is healthy and positive. Some parents are able to do this, others aren't. Their children live through these experiences and learn from them.

When I was choosing a partner, I avoided men whose parents were divorced, or who had difficult relationships with their parents or other family members because, to me, that was a red flag.

@playdoughed

Children don't need to "take notes". Their brains are like sponges when they are young. They absorb everything they see.

Yes, but that works both ways. Children observe their parents' relationships, the good, the bad and the ugly. A young child will suss out fairly early on instinctively what the power dynamics are and who treats whom well.

An environment where there is violence or abuse, where parents are fighting or are just suspicious, contemptuous or resentful towards one another is at least as damaging (I would argue more so) than two happy and well adjusted parents living separately from one another.

"You don’t learn how to sustain a relationship by observing your parents as a child, you learn through years of your own experience of relationships and what works and what doesn’t, from teenage years onwards. You don’t watch your parents sort the electricity bill together, taking notes age 6"

@purpledaze24 You learn from both of those things..

Children don't need to "take notes". Their brains are like sponges when they are young. They absorb everything they see.