To think women who say “I’m just one of the lads” secretly crave male approval?

Internalised misogyny init.
I work in a male dominated industry, 30 years in and I have seen this so many times.

Women are horrid. As someone who was bullied at school and when I went to work found some of the school bullies there as well the bullying continued. I was turning into a bit of a hermit, hated work and spent my evenings and weekends on my own reading and watching films. My brother was basically told to take me along on some of the days out he and his friends had. I went along being tolerated mostly as my brothers sister. After a while I was simply one of the group. No more 'tolerating' I was simply expected to be there same as any of the others. Days out, curry evenings, pub etc.

I eventually married one of them though we had several days out together before we even thought of it as dating. Just two mates together, he's still my 'mate'.

So as far as I'm concerned being one of the lads was much preferable to trying to be one of the girls.

Having worked in aale dominated industry for a few decades Then more recently downside and I've worked in two jobs with women I can hands down day blokes are easier and more fun to work with.
Yes they gossip sometimes and I said leave me out of it to
I didn't drink after work or talk about football but I was accepted by them.
My first female team giggled gossiped and generally bullied me so I got my current place.
Lots of women mostly lovely but the odd one or two and the sideways glanced begin.
Quite judgemental and always looking to criticise others or customers for kicks.
Recently though I was diagnosed with a neurodiverse condition.
Maybe that's why I prefer the blokes as they are straight forward with less silly rules.

@ThatCyanCat

That particular "not like other girls" attitude, which of course is not the same as simply being yourself and happening to have mostly male friends, is no different to cultivating an uber (stereotypical) feminine persona where you pride yourself on men liking you because you're a tradwife who loves baking and homemaking and being submissive, not like those horrible bitter feminists. It's all the same sort of pandering.

I agree with this.

There are women who naturally gravitate towards stereotypically male environments/pastimes and women who gravitate towards traditionally female ones. All good.

Women who cultivate a "one of the blokes" image by doing a lot of beery, blokey activities in a very self-conscious "look at me I'm such a lad" way and women who cultivate a precious, delicate flower persona and speak when they're spoken to are two sides of the same coin.

As long as its being done authentically I couldn't care less. If its done for the male gaze/male appreciation it's a pain in the arse.

What the fuck are you talking about?😃

I think it very much depends on the context.

When I was serving in the Army - obviously a very male-dominated field - it became very apparent which “category” the women fell into (in the eyes of our male colleagues) very quickly.

1. Which ones were there to get the job done without complaint and had no sexual/romantic interest in colleagues,
2. which ones would rely on the fact that they are female to attempt to get softer treatment
3. which ones were happy to engage in flirtation/sexual relationships with male colleagues and these were often the people who would use the phrase “one of the lads” the most often.

So I’d say that “being one of the lads” depends very much on who is saying that.
If it’s the male contingent of the group using that phrase to describe a woman, I think it’s safe to say that’s how they view her: as an equal to their male friends/colleagues and sexually off-limits.
If it’s a women using it to describe herself, I immediately assume it’s pick-me-girl behaviour 🫣

Oh God, me too!

I think men would never fancy a woman who acts like a bloke..drinking pints and swearing

I don't really care about that, but I do think that any man who enjoys a woman's company on the basis of how nasty she is about other women most certainly holds her in just as much loathing and contempt as he does the rest of us; perhaps even more, since he thinks she's too dim to realise why he's there.

That particular "not like other girls" attitude, which of course is not the same as simply being yourself and happening to have mostly male friends, is no different to cultivating an uber (stereotypical) feminine persona where you pride yourself on men liking you because you're a tradwife who loves baking and homemaking and being submissive, not like those horrible bitter feminists. It's all the same sort of pandering.

I don't think being "one of the lads " is anything to brag about
It just smacks of desperately wanting to be accepted by the blokes
I think men would never fancy a woman who acts like a bloke..drinking pints and swearing

I’ve never been bullied by boys.

That's nice, @TunnocksOrDeath . I'm glad you had male friends in your life that were nice.

I've never been raped, sexually assaulted, sexually harassed, groped on public transport, upskirted in an office, discriminated against and overlooked because of my sex by women or girls.

Men and boys, on the other hand...

What I do think often happens with women that perhaps isn't so much of an issue with men is that we are socialised to be nice and reasonable and doubt ourselves and put ourselves last in a way men aren't...and ironically, this can indeed lead to friendship frictions. How many threads do we get every day from women about "friends" that they clearly can't stand but feel somehow obliged to maintain a "friendship" with because they think it wouldn't be nice not to?

Also, it's very often (usually?) women who maintain community life, which is important. But it does mean that in doing this work, they get put into situations of conflict while the men stay away, don't get involved, and are then lauded for not being so petty and bitchy and whatnot.

I've been on mostly male forums. Say what you will about this place, I've never been threatened with rape or death, I've never seen any discussion that spoke about men the way some of those guys discussed women, never seen someone sharing a daily pornographic "pic of the day" or Photoshopping a man's head into a pornographic image. It wasn't all like that, of course, but the worst of them far outweighs the worst I've ever seen in a female environment.

But misogyny prevails. There's always a way to make it cool.

It is no wonder some women prefer the company of men, after reading the responses on this thread.

I've no idea what 'very Mumsnet' even means. Both you and I are here on MN, so presumably anything either of us say could be classed as 'Mumsnet' by virtue of the fact. Yet we are saying opposing things. So very mumsnet doesn't appear to mean very much at all, does it?
Anyone who believes men don't talk about women behind their backs is exceptionally naive. Because they do. I know this, as I've heard them. And it's obviously more valid to have witnessed that something has happened, than to have an optimistic idea that it hasn't.

But then you're not the kind of woman who this thread refers to? It isn't about women who hang around with men. Quite frankly my workplace is 95% male (almost shockingly skewed). I drink with them, I get on with them. It's about the subset of women who like to be the centre of male attention and cross normal social boundaries to make themselves feel attractive under the guise of being one of the lads.

“Talking about shopping” yes because that’s what women talk about

No, but they might be talking about your body and how they’d fuck you if they could behind your back, or in a WhatsApp group (which is what happened with a group of men knew, we were all late 30s at the time).

She has a laugh and jokes, doesn't cause drama? But most women are like this.

I'm unsure how those behaviours are her implying she is better. She just sounds happy to me.

Am I missing something?

Can't imagine why women don't like you. Yes, they're definitely the ones with the problem. And oh yes, men all get on so well with each other... <consults a history book....>

😂 It’s called a conversation , you can answer any posters on here. That’s how it works.

5128gap

I mean all the judgy horrible comments on this thread!!!

I always got on better with men. My 2 best friends are women, but other than that all my good friends are guys. Was like that all my life. Much less drama. I dont want any of those friends to “pick me”. I also get on with their partners and they get on with mine.

How very Mumsnet of you to assume this is naive

I honestly think the only reason that most men would be friends with a woman is that they find her attractive. Even if they never act on it, they will still fancy them and have that hope that one day, they might get a shag out of it.

Women are in it for friendship and how they get on with someone, men are in it for their dicks.

Thats a hill I will die on.

I was bullied by girls at several points in my school years. I’ve never been bullied by boys. There were no girls my age in the village where I lived, but there were a couple of boys who looked out for me, and we hung out together. Then I went to university and did a STEM course that was over 90% male students. I would have been pretty lonely if I couldn’t be “one of the lads” during those years.