AIBU to think that 'patriarchy chicken' isn't the whole story?

Just did a bit of internet research and apparently Denmark was the first country to abolish the transatlantic slave trade, so not Britain.
The first country recorded as banning slavery was France in 1315 although it was later used in French colonies.
Apparently slavery was never legal in Australia, so well done Australia.

Wtf.

I’m glad I live where I do. Some people must live in absolute shitholes if everyone’s barging into each other like bonobos asserting their place in the hierarchy.

Interesting- this isn't something I've ever noticed in white women in particular but I have noticed total lack of spacial awareness of others in London. I have always just put it down to there being so many people around that it is impossible to avoid everyone. Purposely banging into someone because of a race difference is a pretty arseholey thing to do - even if it is an unconscious bias!

I'll look out for it next time. I can accept that being white means that I won't experience it in the same way though.

Well no country has anything to be proud about it then do they.

Interesting that men will generally defer to women with young children, whereas other women won't.
I wonder if this is a hierarchy thing, with fertile women having a status above men, or whether it is just that these men have been trained to have 'manners'.

A couple of posters are claiming that they have no knowledge of this 'pavement chicken' phenomenon, that it never happens to them, that it is nothing to do with sexism, ageism, racism, class, or anything else, that if people bump into each other it is just random people being rude or too busy or on their phones.

Are you denying that humans are primates? or that primates are intensely hierarchical? or that humans are not hierarchical? or that this status-obsession is not demonstrated on pavements? or that it is not mostly operating on a sub-conscious level in the high status and low status people? or that sub-conscious actions exist?

Or perhaps you are never bumped into because you are so low-status you automatically get out of the way for everyone else, without even realising it?
(humorous - no insult intended).

A fair percentage actually. Try being a wheelchair user. And I'm white.

Huh?

I don't live in London, but am there multiple times a year. I can honestly say I've never experienced what you've described.

I'd also never heard of "patriarchy chicken", but would think of myself as pretty internet-savvy, and down with whatever the latest topic is.

It sounds like you've just encountered a load of knobs. London is absolutely packed to the rafters this time of year, and over-crowded. People are going to get a bit jostled sometimes, especially if (and it sounds like you are) you're in the busiest tourist areas.

I played patriarchal chicken in the car yesterday when I refused to be barged out of the way by a man. The look on his face was priceless as he was forced to give way to me.

I find middle class, middle aged people in M&S take up a lot of space and don't yield to anyone. They strut around like they own it and there's me squeezing and shuffling trying to get some shopping.

I think humans have a pecking order and we're all expected to know our place.

OP, what many posters are missing is that it doesn't matter if they've never experienced this, you did. And even allowing for all the things like maybe people were busy talking or on their phones etc, you still had a disproportionate number of white women who did this .

Even if it's all a warped perception from some past experience, you still have had that past that led to this. (I'm not saying it was a warped perception, trying to show to others where their thinking could be developed).

So, whatever excuses they're coming up with, your experience is still true.

FWIW this sounds like a physical example of what 2nd wave feminism was accused of, being focused on mc White women and ignoring women of colour. Your physical attributes of being youngish, mixed race and smaller turn you into a literal blind spot that people blunder into. Of course it happens.

And yes, I sit with these concerns and if I walk into a shop I check behind me to make sure I'm not about to let the door close on someone like you that I didn't notice to try and overcome my own blind spots. It's basic manners.

OP1: I hate fucking experiencing mansplaining every fucking day
MN: preach
Poster 1: oh so all men do this? Why are you making this about sex when they might just be a jerk regardless of their sex.
MN: OH GREAT ANOTHER "NOT MY NIGEL COOL WIFE"

OP2: I'm sick of man spreading. Here's how I combat it and make men feel awkward and get approving looks from knowing women on the tube.
MN: YES!!!!!!!!!! Finally people are waking up to this disgusting practice by men.
Poster: it's not something I've noticed. Seems kind of misandrist.
MN: ODFOD with your NAMALT shit misandry doesn't exist

OP3: here's something I've noticed as a POC and when it happens it's by and large white women doing it.
MN: oh so all white women do this every second of the day do they? Even the ones you've never met. Why even bring race in to it? You're the real racist.

You sound quite racist. If this post was the other way round, all hell would break loose.

There is no country on earth that hasn't been involved in slavery.

Yep. All cultures, ethnicities and countries are quite capable of racism and yep of course white people can experience racism, and just like all other ethnicities and cultures, they do.

And yep, the British did an amazing job of leading the way to stop the slave trade, at great financial cost to the UK taxpayers. Proud indeed to have that as part of my heritage.

OP were you in a largely white area? Obviously if you were then it would be mainly white people in your way.

I’m white, middle aged, short and live in a largely non-white area of London. I feel invisible as people constantly make no adjustments for me being on the pavement. If I get in the road I get no thanks or even eye contact. The offenders on the whole are parents of any colour with pushchairs, or non-white people in general, I don’t find any differences between male and female. I have no idea if someone of a different colour / age / sex / height / demeanour would have the same experience as me.

Yesterday some ridiculous person was talking about inverted racism as in racism against white people 😆🙄 I will say though, I don't think I've ever had anyone bang into me in my life (and I'm very small)

I'm white, my husband isn't and I definitely notice the difference when I am alone or with him.

Do you think abusers should be proud that they've stopped abusing? A country that never engaged in slavery should be proud.

We’re all describing different experiences because we are all picturing different pavements and all have our own differences in how we are perceived.

My DH is awful- totally oblivious to pavements etiquette. He doesn’t signal his moves ahead of time so it must feel like patriarchy chicken walking towards him. I end up making massive adjustments to make up for him making none. He doesn’t adjust his path to the other people whether it’s two of us heading for one small gap or people coming towards us.
In his case, it’s ND, but still very wearing.

I stand still against oncoming hordes. Elbows in, firmly rooted. The sea tends to break around you, albeit slightly huffily.

No but she said it was just white women...oh I get it because someone is white they can't experience racism. Wasn't that the argument Diane Abbott put forward.

Ok. Gypsies...our local FB groups have had some of the most awful hatred completely ignored by the usually all powerful mods
Jews.... unable to visit London at times irrespective of their views on Gaza
White Muslims... constantly considered to be suffering from a mh issue
Even the film bend it like Beckham (one of my favourites) has the word Gorja throughout, a prerogative term for white people

I work in London so I am used to busy pavements and tourists but yesterday was dreadful. I was in both the City and Regent Street area and both were full of people completely unaware of those around them dawdling and meandering and walking into people. They were of all races and ages.

I had planned to have a browse in a few shops around Regent St but in the end I did the one thing I needed there and then headed straight out. I think you just hit unlucky timing, OP.

Garliclitre, bit of a cross post there.

There are a couple of things going on here. There’s the sample size (very small) and confirmation bias (once you start noticing something, you notice more of it because you’re looking it for it).

I think it’s very probable that people’s expectations of who should get out of the way for who are based on internal prejudices. It’s also possible that some groups are more observant than others, which may in turn be related to mobile phone use.

I’d be very surprised if there wasn’t a racist element at play, but I’d also be very surprised if women were worse culprits than men. It doesn’t match my lifelong experience and it doesn’t fit with what I understand about people’s prejudices. I think you’d have to do some kind of study to work out who were the worst offenders and who were the biggest “victims”. I don’t think you’d get a lot of white women barging into black (or any colour) men. You’d also hope that whilst the elderly are a vulnerable group, people would move out the way for them more. It would be interesting to compare advantage/disadvantage chicken wise with advantage/disadvantage more generally.

PhD, anyone?