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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that 'patriarchy chicken' isn't the whole story?

264 replies

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 13:58

Hear me out, as I reckon that this will be an unpopular opinion, but I am keen to know if my experience is just me or if others experience the same.

I hear a lot on this site about 'patriarchy chicken': simply put, the admirable notion that women deserve to take up space and not have to stand aside for men. Last week, I was in London, (I'm from a smaller UK city) I was STAGGERED by the utter lack of spatial awareness of women. I am a woman, for context: youngish (I'm 42 but look a lot younger) I found women knocked into me constantly and let their kids blunder into me and other people. I didn't have a problem with men at all. The other thing that I did notice was that all these women were white, and were all ages from young to late middle age (old women weren't an issue at all) I am mixed race. Before anyone thinks that I was the problem and was just out of my depth in London, that isn't the case. I am a trained dancer, I have a lot of spatial awareness, and I am used to London even though I haven't lived there for a while. I am starting to wonder if I need to play 'white supremacy chicken'!

OP posts:
gannett · 07/08/2025 14:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I don't use Karen either but I'm more than OK with the original meaning of the term. It's hilarious that MN gets in a froth on it because I've never seen that original meaning encapsulated any better than the weekly "shall I REPORT these WORKMEN for BREATHING" threads on here.

Devilsmommy · 07/08/2025 14:23

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MiloMinderbinder925 · 07/08/2025 14:23

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:17

So do you go on threads which complain about men, and tell the women on there that they must be making it up?

Depends what they say and how many others have experienced the same thing.

BernardButlersBra · 07/08/2025 14:21

Catpiece · 07/08/2025 14:17

It’s just the hustle and bustle of busy London streets. Try not to read anything into it

This. It’s just the way London is

Frikadelle · 07/08/2025 14:21

Were they on their phones? I watched one woman get off the bus recently, completely engrossed in her phone. She was on a direct collision course with me, but in between us both was a lamppost. I can safely say that she would not have moved out of my way, as she walked straight into the lamppost. These people engrossed in their phones seem to expect even inanimate objects to move for them!

BernardButlersBra · 07/08/2025 14:21

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:19

Racism against whites doesn't exist.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 doesn’t it?

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:20

This reply has been deleted

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gannett · 07/08/2025 14:19

Devilsmommy · 07/08/2025 14:17

She literally said in her op that all the people barging into her were white women and that it's always white women who do it. From your post I can see you're one of those who thinks that racism against whites doesn't exist. Saying that all middle class white women have got entitled attitudes because of their race privilege is a fucking joke

Please learn to comprehend the difference between "all the women who barged into me were white" and "all white women barge into people". FFS.

Racism against whites doesn't exist but I don't think we're at the level to be having that discussion.

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:19

Devilsmommy · 07/08/2025 14:17

She literally said in her op that all the people barging into her were white women and that it's always white women who do it. From your post I can see you're one of those who thinks that racism against whites doesn't exist. Saying that all middle class white women have got entitled attitudes because of their race privilege is a fucking joke

Racism against whites doesn't exist.

OP posts:
letsallchant · 07/08/2025 14:17

Haven't seen it myself but I can believe it happens.

Devilsmommy · 07/08/2025 14:17

gannett · 07/08/2025 14:09

YANBU and as a small mixed-race woman who also looks younger than I am, I've noticed similar things.

You're on a hiding to nothing trying to get MN to acknowledge intersectionality, or any power dynamic outside of All Men Are Like This, All Women Are Like That. Many have tried over the years but it goes down like a cup of cold sick on this site.

I have noticed there is a type of middle-class woman who bangs on a lot about how women should take up space, forget the toxic nonsense of Be Kind and so on - and they are always the type of woman for whom taking up space and being selfish comes utterly naturally and is bolstered by their class (and often race) privilege.

She literally said in her op that all the people barging into her were white women and that it's always white women who do it. From your post I can see you're one of those who thinks that racism against whites doesn't exist. Saying that all middle class white women have got entitled attitudes because of their race privilege is a fucking joke

Catpiece · 07/08/2025 14:17

It’s just the hustle and bustle of busy London streets. Try not to read anything into it

gannett · 07/08/2025 14:17

Devilsmommy · 07/08/2025 14:13

Are you seriously pissed at me for pointing out that what you're saying is racist? Imagine if someone said that all the black women in London are cheeky fuckers barging into people. That would absolutely be racist. It's not different because it's white people you're saying it about

Not an iota of self-awareness!

To paraphrase Reni Eddo-Lodge, this is why I don't talk to white people about race any more. Waste of my time.

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:17

MiloMinderbinder925 · 07/08/2025 14:16

They must be OP.

So do you go on threads which complain about men, and tell the women on there that they must be making it up?

OP posts:
gannett · 07/08/2025 14:16

ObtuseMoose · 07/08/2025 14:10

How is it relevant to your story that you look younger than your age?

Because young women are often not taken as seriously and considered more vulnerable than older women. I was harassed more by men when I was younger, certainly. And frankly some older women are very quick to pass visible or even vocal judgment on younger women who aren't conforming to their gender norms. Look on this site at the weekly threads about some hussy's tight leggings or skimpy bikini, for example.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 07/08/2025 14:16

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:15

Are the men covered in bruises from barging into every woman?

They must be OP.

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:15

MiloMinderbinder925 · 07/08/2025 14:14

These white supremacists must be covered in bruises if they're banging into everyone who isn't white OP, that's my point.

Are the men covered in bruises from barging into every woman?

OP posts:
BitOutOfPractice · 07/08/2025 14:15

People’s spatial awareness is shocking and seems to be getting worse. I also don’t have any doubt that race also plays a part. I’m white so I don’t have personal experience but I don’t doubt that white privilege is very much alive and well Sadly in every single sphere of life.

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:14

Devilsmommy · 07/08/2025 14:13

Are you seriously pissed at me for pointing out that what you're saying is racist? Imagine if someone said that all the black women in London are cheeky fuckers barging into people. That would absolutely be racist. It's not different because it's white people you're saying it about

You haven't answered my question. Do you tell women off for complaining about 'patriarchy chicken'? And if not, why not?

OP posts:
MiloMinderbinder925 · 07/08/2025 14:14

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:02

Yes, that is what I am saying. As I say, it surprised me.

ETA. Do you point out to people who say that men bang into them that there are women everywhere, so because they see women every day that they can't be predjudiced against them? Otherwise, I don't know what point you are making about London being 'diverse'.

Edited

These white supremacists must be covered in bruises if they're banging into everyone who isn't white OP, that's my point.

Devilsmommy · 07/08/2025 14:13

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:09

Do you call the people talking about patriarchy chicken 'sexist'?

Are you seriously pissed at me for pointing out that what you're saying is racist? Imagine if someone said that all the black women in London are cheeky fuckers barging into people. That would absolutely be racist. It's not different because it's white people you're saying it about

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:13

KnittyNell · 07/08/2025 14:09

“White supremacy chicken”
As Catherine Tate’s ‘Nan’ character would say
“What a load of old shit!”
🤭🤭🤭

Do you say the same about 'patriarchy chicken'? If not, why not? Is it just the 'chicken' talk that you find absurd, or are you annoyed because I was talking about race and not sex?

OP posts:
gannett · 07/08/2025 14:13

FWIW the prime bargers who expect everyone to make way for them on public paths, in my experience, tend to be parents. I actually don't notice it much from men though I don't deny the experience of those who do.

But it differs depending on who you are. I have a few gay friends - slight of build, visibly gay and some not white - and they all say they get this all the time from taller, bigger men. Sexuality is a factor too.

mbosnz · 07/08/2025 14:13

Oh yes, they were all white, but so am I!

KnittyNell · 07/08/2025 14:13

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:10

THANK YOU! Thank you for affirming that I'm not crazy. Not that I really though I was. White women, if you are reading this, sit with it. Both my post and @gannett's excellent comment.

Where I live it’s usually men from the Middle East who act as the OP describes.
Maybe she should ‘sit on’ that.