Page 7 | Family wedding with obligatory religion. What's an atheist to do?

Tootoomooch · 2025-08-07T12:41:01+00:00

A close family member is getting married this year. He is a devout christian. Both I and my partner are atheists (me, stridently; him, more quietly. Both committedly). The family member has made a point of asking everyone to participate in various religious aspects of the wedding. It appears to be a more involved affair than the standard C of E wedding service. We've been asked - but it feels more like an instruction - to join the singing and to offer individual prayers for the couple (out loud, in front of the assembled masses). I feel very uncomfortable about this but can't put my finger on exactly why. Logically, given that I don't believe, what is the harm in just playing along? But, conversely, if he knows we don't believe and are doing it to keep the peace, what value can he possibly place on our "prayers"? Also - and maybe this is flouncy - but why is my atheism any less valid than his theism? I wouldn't dream of asking him to not pray, or otherwise minimising his beliefs (at least out loud). There is no way I will allow the children to participate, and I also feel uncomfortable with them watching us participate in a religious ceremony that they know we don't believe in. My natural tendency is to both obduracy and confrontation (🤣) so my first instinct is to ignore the request and, if pushed, to say that I don't feel comfortable. This is me moderating my first, instinctive response to tell him to f-off. However, I wonder if IABU. It's a wedding, his special day etc etc (blah) and I should just suck it up? So - AIBU - being a militant atheist can wait for a day. Keep the peace and make up a prayer. or AINBU - obliging disbelievers to participate is unreasonable and I can just keep quiet (to the fullest extent possible)

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:07

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/08/2025 18:00

Or she knows the close family member well enough to know that they would absolutely notice and claim it has ruined the wedding or something.

If OP thinks that changing the word would cause an issue or they refuse the offer of a more secular reading then I think just politely declining to take part is the way to go.

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"Pray" isn't a sacred word

Atheists can "pray"

Saying "I pray for rain" doesn't denote any particular god or faith in any good at all.

It's not even a word that a sensible logical atheist would NEED to change in order to say and mean, that they pray for the wellbeing and good fortune of the couple

The infinitive verb "to pray" is not some sort of sacred incantation.

Superhansrantowindsor · 07/08/2025 18:07

I am a Christian but would feel very uncomfortable in the situation you are describing. Prayer for me is a personal thing. Therefore YANBU in my opinion.

Supersimkin7 · 07/08/2025 18:05

This isn’t about you, or your children.

Or atheism.

Park your ego for a day.

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:04

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:00

And these are examples of what the specific prayers might be like. If lots of people are doing them they'll be short n sweet

Because we don't know, the OP either hasn't told us (maybe because if they did then probably nobody could find any problem in the sentiment) or because they haven't asked what it is before deciding to protest

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I'm assuming that it is a Christian prayer, otherwise she wouldn't have a problem with it.

Manxexile · 07/08/2025 18:03

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:56

Yeah but if they just quietly did that, nobody would even have noticed on the day it'd be straight into the next person's prayer ..

And that doesn't seem like the kinda quiet solution the OP is after

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Again you miss the point.

The OP doesn't want to be seen to be performing an apparently "religious" act which she would see as hypocritical.

That might not bother you but says more about you than the OP

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 07/08/2025 18:02

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:40

Mumble through the hymn
Doesn't say they were asked to do a reading anywhere at all. Just an offatory prayer. It'll be like one sentence. Say it fast and it'll be onto the next person!

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The OP said that she had been asked to read a specific prayer during the service. We don't know how long it is, but it is a reading of sorts.

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/08/2025 18:00

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:56

Yeah but if they just quietly did that, nobody would even have noticed on the day it'd be straight into the next person's prayer ..

And that doesn't seem like the kinda quiet solution the OP is after

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Or she knows the close family member well enough to know that they would absolutely notice and claim it has ruined the wedding or something.

If OP thinks that changing the word would cause an issue or they refuse the offer of a more secular reading then I think just politely declining to take part is the way to go.

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:00

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 17:57

Apart from where she says, 'I have been asked to read a specific prayer during the service.'
you mean?

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And these are examples of what the specific prayers might be like. If lots of people are doing them they'll be short n sweet

Because we don't know, the OP either hasn't told us (maybe because if they did then probably nobody could find any problem in the sentiment) or because they haven't asked what it is before deciding to protest

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:00

SerendipityJane · 07/08/2025 17:57

Conversely, as an atheist, I have happily sworn on the Bible.

It's the telling the truth that's important. And believe you me, perjury is perjury no matter what you don't believe in.

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I did jury service and no way was I going to choose to swear on the Bible. It wouldn't have meant anything. I was tempted to choose the Bhagavad Gita

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 17:58

Dstoat · 07/08/2025 17:56

It sounds like all family members were asked to do a reading which is fairly typical. Just ask which reading they had in mind and see if you’re ok with it. If you’re not then suggest an alternative text/wish. It’s really about wishing them well and blessing them not about your particular religious beliefs. If you wish them well I’d find a way to do it.

Christ on a bike why is no one reading the OP properly?

The OP says, 'I have been asked to read a specific prayer during the service.'

Manxexile · 07/08/2025 17:58

@SkylarFalls - Not all words spoken in a church are sacred you know. Not all prayers are sacraments

You completely miss the point. All "prayers" are by definition religious. To suggest otherwise would be disingenuous.

The OP does not want to be seen to be "performing" according to a religion she does not believe in

SerendipityJane · 07/08/2025 17:57

Arlanymor · 07/08/2025 17:48

I don’t, because it’s sacrilegious and while I have no religion, I respect the rights of others to have beliefs. If I was in a court of law I wouldn’t swear on the Bible either because it would completely invalidate the point of the oath. I would pledge own my own honesty and principles. Non believers who quote words that others believe to be sacred are neither honest nor principled.

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Conversely, as an atheist, I have happily sworn on the Bible.

It's the telling the truth that's important. And believe you me, perjury is perjury no matter what you don't believe in.

CunningPlanMaster · 07/08/2025 17:57

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:56

Yeah but if they just quietly did that, nobody would even have noticed on the day it'd be straight into the next person's prayer ..

And that doesn't seem like the kinda quiet solution the OP is after

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But Op has been asked to read a specific prayer at the front of the church to everyone? I think people would notice that??

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 17:57

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:42

Think miss world:
We pray for peace
We pray for health
We pray for community

Nowhere in the OP did it say she was asked to do an actual reading

Apart from where she says, 'I have been asked to read a specific prayer during the service.'
you mean?

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:56

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/08/2025 17:54

Then OP can change the wording to wish instead of pray and it will be no big deal since they mean the same thing.

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Yeah but if they just quietly did that, nobody would even have noticed on the day it'd be straight into the next person's prayer ..

And that doesn't seem like the kinda quiet solution the OP is after

Dstoat · 07/08/2025 17:56

It sounds like all family members were asked to do a reading which is fairly typical. Just ask which reading they had in mind and see if you’re ok with it. If you’re not then suggest an alternative text/wish. It’s really about wishing them well and blessing them not about your particular religious beliefs. If you wish them well I’d find a way to do it.

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:54

Arlanymor · 07/08/2025 17:48

I don’t, because it’s sacrilegious and while I have no religion, I respect the rights of others to have beliefs. If I was in a court of law I wouldn’t swear on the Bible either because it would completely invalidate the point of the oath. I would pledge own my own honesty and principles. Non believers who quote words that others believe to be sacred are neither honest nor principled.

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Not all words spoken in a church are sacred you know. Not all prayers are sacraments.

There's a lot of disingenuity from the atheists here saying "oh I don't do it out of RESPECT for religious people"

Which is utter bollocks, as there's a world of difference between secret sacraments and an offatory prayer or celebratory hymn and there are a zillion hoops you have to jump through before you'd be asked to say anything really sacred!

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/08/2025 17:54

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:45

Doesn't seem like you read em at all tbh

More than once I've said that there's no lying/pretending in wishing the couple well, unless you in fact, do not!

We pray the couple have the support of their joint families as they go forth in their union

We pray for health and happiness

Anyone can say or mean that regardless of beliefs.

If that reads as lying or pretending to you then you must be going to a lot of weddings of people you don't like?

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Then OP can change the wording to wish instead of pray and it will be no big deal since they mean the same thing.

Arlanymor · 07/08/2025 17:51

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:45

Doesn't seem like you read em at all tbh

More than once I've said that there's no lying/pretending in wishing the couple well, unless you in fact, do not!

We pray the couple have the support of their joint families as they go forth in their union

We pray for health and happiness

Anyone can say or mean that regardless of beliefs.

If that reads as lying or pretending to you then you must be going to a lot of weddings of people you don't like?

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It’s a bit obtuse to suggest that the use of the word ‘pray’ in a church is just a word that anyone can say. It has strong religious connotations and it’s patently untrue to suggest otherwise. Unless you’re Elizabethan and it’s part of your general parlance…

Manxexile · 07/08/2025 17:50

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:20

Probably not long

One sentence each of well wishing on themes of health, community, togetherness, prosperity etc

Posters acting like each person gotta declare devotion and read from scriptures etc are just reaching imo

Of course it'll just be a short "we pray for understanding" "we pray for patience" "we pray for community" etc ...

Nothing that a reasonable person of any persuasion couldn't say and mean!

There wouldn't be time for anything else!

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I might "hope" for understanding, or "hope" for peace or "hope" for community, but nobody is going to tell me to "pray" for them.

I don't "pray". Full stop.

It would be unreasonable of someone to expect me to do so.

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:50

Tootoomooch · 07/08/2025 17:42

@SkylarFalls I’ve been trying so hard not to rise to your posts, but pfff, I’ll bite.

My first observation : you don’t seem to consider religious practice to be particularly important, because very many of your posts suggest that I should just lie/pretend/go along with it. If you did consider it profound and sacred surely you’d be keen that it is respected and undertaken conscientiously. However, the sheer volume of posts on this thread suggests you do care very much indeed. So, a head-scratcher. I shall ponder.

Second observation: you say that people who sing cheesy pop songs are effectively praying. Odd analogy, and I don’t agree. I’ll pose my own. Would you require a vegetarian to eat meat at your wedding because you want them to? Would you explain that it’s only a small amount of chicken? Or cooked in a bit of lard and therefore they’re being attention seeking? If not, why not? What’s the difference between their moral framework and mine?

Phew. That was a relief.

Thanks again folks. Some wise words and interesting viewpoints.

Your vegetarian / meat eating comparison doesn't work

Because it's not like asking a vegetarian to eat meat.

You haven't been asked to join the couples church, or to endorse it, or to declare devotion..

You've just been asked to join in a celebratory song (which atheists do) and read a hope/wish for the couples prosperity (which also, atheists can do)

Your stance is more like a vegetarian who won't eat a carrot because it came from a farm that also has livestock

Arlanymor · 07/08/2025 17:48

Scarylett · 07/08/2025 17:15

I don’t see what the big deal is. How many non believers join in the Lord’s Prayer at funerals or weddings? It’s just lip service. Just do it and stop making such a fuss.

I don’t, because it’s sacrilegious and while I have no religion, I respect the rights of others to have beliefs. If I was in a court of law I wouldn’t swear on the Bible either because it would completely invalidate the point of the oath. I would pledge own my own honesty and principles. Non believers who quote words that others believe to be sacred are neither honest nor principled.

TheFormidableMrsC · 07/08/2025 17:47

Just say “amen” and be done with it.

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 17:45

Tootoomooch · 07/08/2025 17:42

@SkylarFalls I’ve been trying so hard not to rise to your posts, but pfff, I’ll bite.

My first observation : you don’t seem to consider religious practice to be particularly important, because very many of your posts suggest that I should just lie/pretend/go along with it. If you did consider it profound and sacred surely you’d be keen that it is respected and undertaken conscientiously. However, the sheer volume of posts on this thread suggests you do care very much indeed. So, a head-scratcher. I shall ponder.

Second observation: you say that people who sing cheesy pop songs are effectively praying. Odd analogy, and I don’t agree. I’ll pose my own. Would you require a vegetarian to eat meat at your wedding because you want them to? Would you explain that it’s only a small amount of chicken? Or cooked in a bit of lard and therefore they’re being attention seeking? If not, why not? What’s the difference between their moral framework and mine?

Phew. That was a relief.

Thanks again folks. Some wise words and interesting viewpoints.

Doesn't seem like you read em at all tbh

More than once I've said that there's no lying/pretending in wishing the couple well, unless you in fact, do not!

We pray the couple have the support of their joint families as they go forth in their union

We pray for health and happiness

Anyone can say or mean that regardless of beliefs.

If that reads as lying or pretending to you then you must be going to a lot of weddings of people you don't like?

Arlanymor · 07/08/2025 17:43

IamSmarticus · 07/08/2025 13:43

Not a chance. Turn up and attend a wedding ina church? Yes. I might even sing a hymn or two if its one I like, but offer individual prayers out loud? That's a no from me.

First poster nailed it. I went to a wedding - well it was a blessing because they were both divorcees so couldn’t get officially married in that church despite being regular worshippers IN that church! And I mumbled through a couple of hymns, but that was my limit. Shook the vicar’s hand on the way out, but no prayers or anything like that. I’m a humanist and all religion is against my principles. In fact I have two goddaughters except I don’t because I’m not baptised and even if I was I wouldn’t go through the rigmarole of a service I don’t believe in.

Doesn’t make a jot of difference to my relationship with them, in the same way that if you refuse to participate in the religious elements of the wedding it won’t make a jot of difference to the service, the outcome or anyone’s enjoyment of the day. Don’t let someone bully you out of your principles. Assuming family member knows your beliefs it’s crass at best and disrespectful at worst to ask you to contribute in this way.