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AIBU?

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Family wedding with obligatory religion. What's an atheist to do?

418 replies

Tootoomooch · 07/08/2025 13:41

A close family member is getting married this year. He is a devout christian. Both I and my partner are atheists (me, stridently; him, more quietly. Both committedly).

The family member has made a point of asking everyone to participate in various religious aspects of the wedding. It appears to be a more involved affair than the standard C of E wedding service. We've been asked - but it feels more like an instruction - to join the singing and to offer individual prayers for the couple (out loud, in front of the assembled masses).

I feel very uncomfortable about this but can't put my finger on exactly why. Logically, given that I don't believe, what is the harm in just playing along? But, conversely, if he knows we don't believe and are doing it to keep the peace, what value can he possibly place on our "prayers"? Also - and maybe this is flouncy - but why is my atheism any less valid than his theism? I wouldn't dream of asking him to not pray, or otherwise minimising his beliefs (at least out loud).

There is no way I will allow the children to participate, and I also feel uncomfortable with them watching us participate in a religious ceremony that they know we don't believe in.

My natural tendency is to both obduracy and confrontation (🤣) so my first instinct is to ignore the request and, if pushed, to say that I don't feel comfortable. This is me moderating my first, instinctive response to tell him to f-off.

However, I wonder if IABU. It's a wedding, his special day etc etc (blah) and I should just suck it up?

So -

AIBU - being a militant atheist can wait for a day. Keep the peace and make up a prayer.

or

AINBU - obliging disbelievers to participate is unreasonable and I can just keep quiet (to the fullest extent possible)

OP posts:
XDownwiththissortofthingX · 07/08/2025 18:32

UninterestedBeing12 · 07/08/2025 18:30

Christmas is religious in origin. How.many of you refuse to go to your child's nativity play on principle or sing carols with them at such events.

Quite...

I don't celebrate Christmas. As an atheist, why would I?

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:31

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:17

The most likely conclusion is it's just a prayer of well wishing to the couple which does not require the readers to be members of the faith to say, hence everyone being asked to do so

You can't just rock up to a church and join in sacred sacraments, there's qualifiers!

But anyone CAN read a generic prayer

Well, now the OP has clarified that 'it goes along the lines of “We ask god to…” , so is definitely Christian-god-based.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 07/08/2025 18:31

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:22

Do you join in when the song is "Happy Birthday"?

It's just celebrating! It's a wedding!

Go to no weddings if you think it's crazy to be asked to join the festivities

Clearly, in this instance, it's isn't "just" a wedding or a celebration, it's also a religious ceremony.

Most people seem to take a "live, and let live" approach, both those who have a faith and those who do not alike, but if you are going to truly apply that ethos equitably and fairly, then that also means religious people have to respect the right of the non-religious to opt out of participating in religious ceremonies, including religious wedding ceremonies.

Non-participation still respects the right of others to celebrate/participate and do whatever they want, I just wish it was applied unequivocally and religious people stopped expecting the non-religious to oblige them on the premise "what harm could it do if you don't believe anyway?". It's still compelled participation.

UninterestedBeing12 · 07/08/2025 18:30

LillyPJ · 07/08/2025 18:29

Happy Birthday isn't religious! It's easy to celebrate all sorts of things without religion. I don't think it's necessary or kind to ask people to do things which go against their beliefs.

Christmas is religious in origin. How.many of you refuse to go to your child's nativity play on principle or sing carols with them at such events.

Quite...

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:29

SerendipityJane · 07/08/2025 18:17

I refer you to the fact it makes stuff all difference to the court.

But clearly it makes a difference (or is thought to) to the jurors, otherwise they wouldn't bother.

LillyPJ · 07/08/2025 18:29

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:22

Do you join in when the song is "Happy Birthday"?

It's just celebrating! It's a wedding!

Go to no weddings if you think it's crazy to be asked to join the festivities

Happy Birthday isn't religious! It's easy to celebrate all sorts of things without religion. I don't think it's necessary or kind to ask people to do things which go against their beliefs.

UninterestedBeing12 · 07/08/2025 18:27

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:22

Do you join in when the song is "Happy Birthday"?

It's just celebrating! It's a wedding!

Go to no weddings if you think it's crazy to be asked to join the festivities

Parents tell their children a magical man drives a flying sleigh with flying reindeer and delivers them presents by coming down the chimney. They keep up this facade as long as they can and are upset when they no longer believe.

Easter bunny and tooth fairy too.

TizerorFizz · 07/08/2025 18:24

@LillyPJ I don’t have any faith but do you have to be so rude? Some people believe what they say and belittling them isn’t helpful to anyone, including society. Try being a bit more tolerant.

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/08/2025 18:23

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:21

So say it meaning the second definition, unless they don't mean it at all

You know, you can say things in churches like "is this seat taken" and "what a beautiful baby". The church goers do not weight all words uttered in a church equally, it's not like the OP would be taking a sacriment without faith!

Why should OP have to say it if she doesn't want to? She can just politely decline and that's that.

I've never used pray like the second definition.

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:22

LillyPJ · 07/08/2025 18:20

I'm an atheist and I don't join in mumbo-jumbo. Why is it ok for the religious people to 'make a fuss' about people joining in, especially if they know they don't believe? If only more people didn't join in religious practices, just for the sake of it or otherwise, maybe the world would be a better place.

Do you join in when the song is "Happy Birthday"?

It's just celebrating! It's a wedding!

Go to no weddings if you think it's crazy to be asked to join the festivities

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:21

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/08/2025 18:18

Yet the first definition includes religious ceremony which is the context OP will be in. Why are we attempting to ignore that definition?

to speak to a god either privately or in a religious ceremony in order to express love, admiration, or thanks or in order to ask for something

So say it meaning the second definition, unless they don't mean it at all

You know, you can say things in churches like "is this seat taken" and "what a beautiful baby". The church goers do not weight all words uttered in a church equally, it's not like the OP would be taking a sacriment without faith!

LillyPJ · 07/08/2025 18:20

Scarylett · 07/08/2025 17:15

I don’t see what the big deal is. How many non believers join in the Lord’s Prayer at funerals or weddings? It’s just lip service. Just do it and stop making such a fuss.

I'm an atheist and I don't join in mumbo-jumbo. Why is it ok for the religious people to 'make a fuss' about people joining in, especially if they know they don't believe? If only more people didn't join in religious practices, just for the sake of it or otherwise, maybe the world would be a better place.

Tootoomooch · 07/08/2025 18:19

I’m not going to say the prayer because, contrary to the fevered speculation, I don’t want to upset the relative or have the wedding scuttlebutt be all about my MN thread. But it goes along the lines of “We ask god to…” and then onwards.

Frankly, it shouldn’t matter. I am being asked to participate in a ritual which validates a viewpoint I don’t share. The purpose of the thread was (and I say it again) to see if my vaguely defined discomfort was reasonable.

Despite some very shouty opinions and character assassination - I don’t think we know each other, but if we do I’ll defs leave you to it in the pub - it seems lots of people of all faiths and none don’t think I’m unreasonable.

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 07/08/2025 18:18

Arlanymor · 07/08/2025 18:15

I agree with your second two sentences. The first one I don’t - I mean I could do it and it wouldn’t mean anything of course, but the fact is that it matters to other people so being blithe about it feels like a piss take if you see what I mean?

But (whispers) how would they know ?

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/08/2025 18:18

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:12

One of the definitions of "pray":

B2 [ I ]
to hope for something very much:
We're praying for good weather for tomorrow's game.

Since when can't atheists do that?

Yet the first definition includes religious ceremony which is the context OP will be in. Why are we attempting to ignore that definition?

to speak to a god either privately or in a religious ceremony in order to express love, admiration, or thanks or in order to ask for something

privately

1. in secret, or with only one or two other people present: 2. by a person or…

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/privately

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:17

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:14

Obviously it'd clarify things for everyone if the OP said what specific prayer she'd been asked to use.
In the absence of that, though, the most likely conclusion is that it's a Christian prayer explicitly about God/Jesus/some other aspect of Christianity and that's why she's got a dilemma about it.

The most likely conclusion is it's just a prayer of well wishing to the couple which does not require the readers to be members of the faith to say, hence everyone being asked to do so

You can't just rock up to a church and join in sacred sacraments, there's qualifiers!

But anyone CAN read a generic prayer

SerendipityJane · 07/08/2025 18:17

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:11

The actual book is irrelevant.
So why do you get the options of the Bible (Old or New Testament), the Gita, or a non-religious affirmation?

I refer you to the fact it makes stuff all difference to the court.

Arlanymor · 07/08/2025 18:15

SerendipityJane · 07/08/2025 17:57

Conversely, as an atheist, I have happily sworn on the Bible.

It's the telling the truth that's important. And believe you me, perjury is perjury no matter what you don't believe in.

I agree with your second two sentences. The first one I don’t - I mean I could do it and it wouldn’t mean anything of course, but the fact is that it matters to other people so being blithe about it feels like a piss take if you see what I mean?

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:14

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:09

Cool, ask the OP what their specific problem is with the words they've been asked to say to the couple. Cause we're knee deep in this thread now and the OP is active, but they ain't said which words would be like "meat in a vegetarians mouth" to them?

Obviously it'd clarify things for everyone if the OP said what specific prayer she'd been asked to use.
In the absence of that, though, the most likely conclusion is that it's a Christian prayer explicitly about God/Jesus/some other aspect of Christianity and that's why she's got a dilemma about it.

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:12

One of the definitions of "pray":

B2 [ I ]
to hope for something very much:
We're praying for good weather for tomorrow's game.

Since when can't atheists do that?

Help - Codes

Help in understanding the labels and codes in Cambridge Dictionary

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/help/codes.html

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:11

SerendipityJane · 07/08/2025 18:08

Well again, that's just you 😀

The actual book is irrelevant. It's the promise that counts.

As I said, no one has been excused perjury because they had their fingers crossed when they took the oath.

Swearing on "a" book is merely a demonstration to the court that you understand you are being asked under pain of law. Historically it was assumed that swearing on a Bible would ensure a good Christian told the truth. Which seems a bit odd because a good Christian would obey the commandment about not bearing false witness. However we are in danger of looking for consistency in religion. And that won't happen here.

The actual book is irrelevant.
So why do you get the options of the Bible (Old or New Testament), the Gita, or a non-religious affirmation?

Manxexile · 07/08/2025 18:10

SerendipityJane · 07/08/2025 17:57

Conversely, as an atheist, I have happily sworn on the Bible.

It's the telling the truth that's important. And believe you me, perjury is perjury no matter what you don't believe in.

I know this is off topic, but if you are an atheist, why would you be happy to swear on the bible?

I'd be concerned that if any questions were subsequently raised about the truth of my testimony, I might be asked why I had chosen to swear on the bible - which was contrary to my belief - rather than affirming.

Affirming is no more difficult than swearing on the bible

SkylarFalls · 07/08/2025 18:09

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:04

I'm assuming that it is a Christian prayer, otherwise she wouldn't have a problem with it.

Cool, ask the OP what their specific problem is with the words they've been asked to say to the couple. Cause we're knee deep in this thread now and the OP is active, but they ain't said which words would be like "meat in a vegetarians mouth" to them?

SerendipityJane · 07/08/2025 18:08

LittleBitofBread · 07/08/2025 18:00

I did jury service and no way was I going to choose to swear on the Bible. It wouldn't have meant anything. I was tempted to choose the Bhagavad Gita

Well again, that's just you 😀

The actual book is irrelevant. It's the promise that counts.

As I said, no one has been excused perjury because they had their fingers crossed when they took the oath.

Swearing on "a" book is merely a demonstration to the court that you understand you are being asked under pain of law. Historically it was assumed that swearing on a Bible would ensure a good Christian told the truth. Which seems a bit odd because a good Christian would obey the commandment about not bearing false witness. However we are in danger of looking for consistency in religion. And that won't happen here.

OriginalUsername2 · 07/08/2025 18:08

I’d probably do it and enjoy the experience. I’m confident enough in my own beliefs to follow some rituals from other religions or cultures when it’s part of a celebration.

Like a PP said, I don’t see the point in militant atheism. That almost creates its own religion. Just let people live how they want if it’s not hurting anyone.

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