To be struggling with friends SEN child??

Man this sucks. I have a SEN sibling and it is incredibly isolating. As a parent it’s relentless, but it is not working if the child is destroying property.

That’s not what I said though, is it? There’s a whole paragraph in there about that being unacceptable.

I would actually argue that those parents who are advocating having your children watch as the OP cuts a friend out of their life because they have a disabled child are suggesting a pretty dreadful life lesson.

What’s pile on ? Most posts are supportive. I don’t think her kids will be fine if the situation continues, and l think what they will ‘learn’ is that disability = getting away with stuff that wouldn’t be tolerated from themselves, and having to watch their stuff being wrecked without saying a word ‘because disabled’. It’s not the best way to encourage empathy and inclusivity is it ?

I think the problem is that the mother doesn't see her DDs behaviour as a problem. I used to have a child like this come to visit, but the mother was very clear that I could be as firm as was needed with the child and take no nonsense.

I did as she said, and the very destructive, loud, difficult child grew into a real gentleman. He's just gone off to university, and is very definitely house trained.

I know it’s hard for her but as a parent of an autistic child I know that sometimes you have to work within your child’s comfort zone. That’s not a reflection on her personally.

Yes I think it is time to be honest with your friend. Think of it as a kindness. Because if you aren't, she is going to become more and more isolated. She needs a close friend like you to open her eyes.

And yes, put your children first and meet her elsewhere. She may well get upset but maybe she needs this wake up call to get some help, support and advice as to how to best care for her DD.

Gently her feeling isolated is her problem not yours or your children's.
I suspect that if she actually parented her dd by appropriately supervising her and telling her not to touch other people's things without permission (yes she'd feel like a broken record and it might take years to work of never do) or even apologised and replaced damaged items, she wouldn't have lost so many friends.
The thing is your so called friend has no respect for you, your children nor your home and to me that shows that she's not really a friend.

I think you'd be doing a kind thing to help her understand why her other friends have stopped inviting her. You are having to do the same thing and you've known her a long time and are very close, less alone 'mum friends' who may not have the same level of relationship with her.

As you say, she's possibly in denial about her childs needs and the impact of her behaviour and if no one tells her, she going to turn into one of the parents who uses "but she has SEN" as an excuse for everything and then gets angry and bitter when people drop her and her child. I've had to pull back from a friend because she doesn't control her child (no Sen, just 'lively') and she just laughs, and ignores the mayhem (hitting, running off, does the opposite of what told to do, very rude). She's quite isolated now in her other friendship groups as her now primary age child is just a menace to have around, especially in public places.

Can you find a way to see her on her own without any kids around, and in a neutral setting? (you don't mention if she has a husband/parner or if her childs father is in her life). Somewhere you can talk openly and where if she gets upset it's not too public? I find country walks or wandering in stately home grounds perfect for deep and meaningfuls with friends.

The child isn't there to play with your children and the mum doesn't want to have to watch her like a hawk. So my thought would be that if a screen would entertain her dd and stop her from destroying her friends houses then that would be an extremely sensible use of a screen.

Maybe your friend is so used to her dd breaking things that it has become completely normalised to her. But it's not normal to others and even though it's only materials, those materials cost money and can have value in other ways. So the next idea is that a selection of tough/non breakable toys are brought downstairs and all the kids stay downstairs. As your kids really like your friend this hopefully would be ok by them.

The third idea is as others have said that you don't meet up at your house. Is there somewhere her dd likes to go that you could all meet at? Or could you go and stay with her instead?

It's a really difficult situation but really what's making it so difficult is your friend not being able to see the problem. It's your friend that is the problem here. All you can do is try to handle it in a positive way - I suggest talking through the issues she has at other peoples houses and coming up with strategies to prevent the issues - which she could then trial at your house.

If she's not interested in tackling the issues though then I think you just have to not have them come to yours.

I have a autistic 3 year old and she is as destructive i would be mortified if she did all this in a friend's house and would definitely replace what she broke! being a mum to a autistic child is hard but her child has broken things that are not hers so she should definitely pay.

I don’t think you do have any choice OP. You need to put your children first - your friend can’t just expect you and them to suck up the damage every time they visit.

To dismiss the destruction of their belonging as ‘it’s just stuff’ is unacceptable and l’m not surprised other friends are commenting if the same is happening when she visits them. I don’t think this attitude really reflects what you said about her doing her best.

I would talk to her. And make it clear that you value her friendship and you love both her and her DD, but that you can’t afford to accommodate the damage DD causes every time they visit, and you can’t allow the distress it causes to your own children.

As other posters have said, suggest somewhere neutral like the park - pack a picnic or something to make it fun, but make it clear that there can be no more home visits for a while.

And l wouldn’t shy away from telling your friend that you know it must be difficult for her, but that her dismissive attitude towards the damage her child causes will end up driving people away. You could couple this with asking if she’s coping and suggesting she look into any extra support available. If you want to be supportive you could help research it.

OP, it’s great that you and your children want to be supportive to your friend and inclusive to the child, but this is not your responsibility to shoulder. Your priority is your own kids, and your friend should understand that.

Difficult all round…. I have a child with ASD/ADHD and whilst their needs are an explanation for the behaviour it does not mean the behaviour is excusable. My own child is incredibly anxious which leads to issues like this - he basically needs 1:1 when out and about or parking with headphones and a screen (and at home when dysregulated he smashes up his brothers room…). I would suspect your friend is not supervising as she is craving some adult time with her friend which is understandable but her child is really needing attention and support. Teaching your own children empathy is important but so is also validating their feelings, their stuff being broken is not acceptable.
Can you arrange to meet your friend when kids at school or if she has a sitter for her child? Can you meet outside somewhere? Would the child be happy if they got attention eg ask (bribe) your kids to play a game? All
play a game? Screens? Can you have a long phone chat catch up?
From the perspective of your friend it would likely be devastating to her if you couldn’t maintain a relationship but something needs to change to help your own kids. Good luck OP I think it is kind of you to ask for suggestions rather than just go in…

Could you start by asking her to replace the broken toy and say that your child has been really upset because you can’t afford to replace it? If people aren’t actually telling her these little things and then just stop inviting her she’s not going to get it. If she gets defensive that’s on her. I’d be mortified and would have already offered if my kid broke something to be fair, did she not react at all??

Now, I realise that autism is a spectrum. My children who are now adults are both on the spectrum and I simply would not have allowed them to behave like this as children ( and they didn't). I appreciate for some children on the spectrum that is not really a realistic response. But if your child cannot be trusted to behave and respect other children's toys, then you shouldn't be inflicting them on your friends. I find her comment about damages just being to material things mind blowing. I mean what if you went out and took a hammer to her car - would that not count because it was just a material thing. I think not. I would protect my children from this very entitled woman and her offspring. The fact that your child's favourite toy is now damaged because of her lack of supervision and you can't afford to replace it says it all to me. Apparently, paying for the damage her child caused has never even crossed her mind. I would cut her off without a second thought on the basis of this behaviour.

Go to hers instead. Stop having them at your house, or meet at a park.

Meet outside!

Meet up in wide outdoor spaces with all the kids instead, soft play if it's raining.

I think you can still be supportive, op, but it will take a lot of honesty with your friend to explain you know how difficult things are for her but you can't have a repeat of your dc having their things broken. Just as she will put her dd first, you need to do the same. You say they live a distance away - how far? Could you meet somewhere neutral, half way, to spend the day together? Or could you visit them in their house (her dd may be more settled in her own environment too anyway)?

My dd is autistic, but her autism means she is very attached to certain possessions. She really struggles with her things getting lost or broken - I mean inconsolable. She worries about this endlessly. This situation would be very bad for her. Only now (she's 8) are we beginning to understand her needs (beyond what I've described) mean we have to make some hard decisions about we can do with her (and she's extremely high functioning, though I know many don't like that term). We were supposed to go to a small festival next year with my sister and bil. He's now invited his cousin and his family which will change the dynamics so much that we're going to pull out. We don't know him, and he has no awareness of dd's needs. The whole thing is just going to be even more stressful (dd can be great, but when she kicks off, she really kicks off, which is embarrassing when you're with people who have no experience of this). We've come on a totally different holiday this year to usual for this reason and it's amazing how stress free it is. Dd (and 14yo ds) are thriving. None of the usual stresses, dd in more of her usual routine, no extended family to please etc.

It sounds like your friend is trying to carry on a normal life with her dd, whatever the cost to her and others. I don't mean that in a horrible way. I understand it. I've lived it. But being a parent of a child with SEN means you really do have to adapt everything many people take for granted. You have to parent the child you have. I think there's a way of saying all this to your friend but retaining the friendship.

She shouldn’t have to claim in her insurance, pay an excess and then up her premiums for the following year because her friend is selfish.

It sounds as if your friend is in denial about her child’s needs, failing to meet them and shrugging her shoulders at the impact on others. The inevitable consequence is that others will begin to pull away - and she and her child will suffer in the long run. If you value the friendship you may want to express clearly ‘I love you and DD so much. However, at your last visit DD spoiled my children’s things, tore up my garden and broke my belongings. I hope you understand that I can’t continue to have you visit if this is going to happen. Perhaps it would be better to meet in neutral spaces to help DD manage. I know this is hard to hear but I am saying it because I value our friendship and don’t want resentment to creep in’.

If I wanted her at my house I would have a room which was kept clear of anything that I did not want destroyed. Anything of sentimental or other value would be in a locked room.

It is possible to meet in parks too. I have a friend who lives hundreds of miles away and we meet in National Trust or similar type places half way between us - and walk around the grounds (so no need to go into the houses which this girl might wreck).

You could also suggest your friend join an outdoor family walking group. I was in one and it did have above average SEN kids, probably because the outdoor nature space suited them better than indoor play areas.

Your friend also would benefit from joining groups for families with autistic children.

I would not cut this friend out but I would look for ways to protect your family whilst still keeping up the friendship, and I would be clear to her that my goal was to find a way that I could still meet up with her.

Long shot, but would house insurance cover the toy? Eg if it's a Nintendo switch or something similarly expensive?
I can't imagine taking my ASD DC to a friend's home and letting them trash it. It's just outrageous of her. I'm almost wondering if the parent has a degree of ASD herself to be so unaware of your children's feelings?
She is putting her DC first, without a thought for yours.
I think that you may have to tell her that sadly your DC are very upset re their broken toys and whilst you sympathise with her situation you are going to have to meet in play barns and parks.

Op you sound a very very kind person.

But your friend must realise that her kid damages other people's stuff.

I have a nephew who's just very heavy handed, things just disintegrate in his hands. Even his own stuff just disintegrates. So I can understand the toy getting damaged but I can't understand the book being willfully destroyed.

I'm also guessing the friend isn't in a position to replace the toy either?

I think you speak to her, could you go half's to replace the toy?
(Please don't come out and say its a Lego building thats been taken to bits, had than one on MN before, the Op was angling for a replacement because a kid had taken it to bits)

Cn you see her in term time only?

I’d rather upset a friend than my children.

A child’s home is their sanctuary and whilst we can explain disability and inclusion to children, it’s a bit harder to understand when young and your belongings are being trashed.

The fact your friend brushes off destruction makes me think she’s either overwhelmed or using autism as an excuse not to try and control the situation.

Harshly, it’s not your cross to bear. Your own children’s comfort is your priority.