To think this journalist from the independent is rather deluded ?

But none of that happened did it?

The employee offered help. It was declined. They left. That’s it.

I agree the at one persons experience and views shouldn’t represent their entire demographic, but while I see how it might make nervous young girls embarrassed or uncomfortable, he wasn’t behaving inappropriately if all he did was ask if she needed help. If it was a cis male that still stands. They are there to ensure the customer receives the items they want to buy and buys them. It’s an assumption that M&S would have trained them to point the customers to the nearest available female employee for help in the changing room, if they are allowing them in there then that is completely out of order.

This world is made up of lots of different ppl who will make others ‘uncomfortable’. They may have an unsightly deformity on their face, or have slight learning difficulties which makes them a little slower to process communication but nevertheless able to do the job professionally and politely. They may be sight or hearing impaired and this might make a young person feel awkward.

People can find all sorts of characteristics uncomfortable to interact with, but as long as they aren’t in danger and are being treated with respect, what is the problem?

If the shop assistant was a man who presented as a man, this wouldn't ever hit the papers. The mum and daughter would have said no, and moved on. Male shop assistants in clothes stores surely ask women of all ages if they need assistance all the time, including in lingerie or bra sections.

Especially as in many stores, assistants are told they HAVE to offer assistance to anyone who looks lost.

If a man who looked like a man who was obviously a shop assistant came up to any of us in the lingerie section and offered help, we'd just say no and (likely rightly) assume he was just doing his job, and understand that he must not have realised we were there for a bra fitting (because how could he? Ime lingerie sections have bras, pants, socks, pyjamas, night gowns, all sorts unrelated to bra fittings )

That's the transphobia and what's irrational here. People arnt all up in arms because a male employee offered assistance in the lingerie department. No one would give a flying fuck about that. They're up in arms because a trans employee offered assistance in the lingerie department .

If that young teen girl was more scared of the scenario than she would have been going to a male doctor/having a male lifeguard at the pool/any other manner of things that involve men, then that's because she's been taught to fear trans people specifically - and, as far as I know, men who are not trans ("cis") are way more dangerous to girls and women than trans people.

It's more likely that her strong reaction was because first bras can be embarrassing and nerve wracking... And pearl clutching mum has just made it worse.

Men who want to prey on women and girls don't put on a wig and dress to do it. They just bloody do it. Surely we all know that.

Maybe - but creating a pile on on a specific and easily identifiable individual based on the say so of an anonymous person whose story is riddled with holes is a totally irresponsible and reprehensible way to make that point.

I agree the at one persons experience and views shouldn’t represent their entire demographic, but while I see how it might make nervous young girls embarrassed or uncomfortable, he wasn’t behaving inappropriately if all he did was ask if she needed help. If it was a cis male that still stands. They are there to ensure the customer receives the items they want to buy and buys them. It’s an assumption that M&S would have trained them to point the customers to the nearest available female employee for help in the changing room, if they are allowing them in there then that is completely out of order.

This world is made up of lots of different ppl who will make others ‘uncomfortable’. They may have an unsightly deformity on their face, or have slight learning difficulties which makes them a little slower to process communication but nevertheless able to do the job professionally and politely. They may be sight or hearing impaired and this might make a young person feel awkward.

People can find all sorts of characteristics uncomfortable to interact with, but as long as they aren’t in danger and are being treated with respect, what is the problem?

Her purported Twitter feed.

Of course it matters. Because the whole inappropriateness hinges on claims that the employee approached a lone teenager to ask if she needed help.

The only ‘proof’ of that is the claim of an anonymous mother who, assuming the anonymous Twitter handle is actually her, clearly has a longstanding axe to grind against trans people. So if the mother’s story is riddled with more holes than Swiss cheese then it becomes and even less of a solid basis to publicly shame and smear a (probably entirely identifiable) person for doing their job.

Maybe - but creating a pile on on a specific and easily identifiable individual based on the say so of an anonymous person whose story is riddled with holes is a totally irresponsible and reprehensible way to make that point.

I agree the at one persons experience and views shouldn’t represent their entire demographic, but while I see how it might make nervous young girls embarrassed or uncomfortable, he wasn’t behaving inappropriately if all he did was ask if she needed help. If it was a cis male that still stands. They are there to ensure the customer receives the items they want to buy and buys them. It’s an assumption that M&S would have trained them to point the customers to the nearest available female employee for help in the changing room, if they are allowing them in there then that is completely out of order.

This world is made up of lots of different ppl who will make others ‘uncomfortable’. They may have an unsightly deformity on their face, or have slight learning difficulties which makes them a little slower to process communication but nevertheless able to do the job professionally and politely. They may be sight or hearing impaired and this might make a young person feel awkward.

People can find all sorts of characteristics uncomfortable to interact with, but as long as they aren’t in danger and are being treated with respect, what is the problem?

I agree the at one persons experience and views shouldn’t represent their entire demographic, but while I see how it might make nervous young girls embarrassed or uncomfortable, he wasn’t behaving inappropriately if all he did was ask if she needed help. If it was a cis male that still stands. They are there to ensure the customer receives the items they want to buy and buys them. It’s an assumption that M&S would have trained them to point the customers to the nearest available female employee for help in the changing room, if they are allowing them in there then that is completely out of order.

This world is made up of lots of different ppl who will make others ‘uncomfortable’. They may have an unsightly deformity on their face, or have slight learning difficulties which makes them a little slower to process communication but nevertheless able to do the job professionally and politely. They may be sight or hearing impaired and this might make a young person feel awkward.

People can find all sorts of characteristics uncomfortable to interact with, but as long as they aren’t in danger and are being treated with respect, what is the problem?

Why is bra fitting relevant here? The employee did not offer a fitting service and there’s no indication that they have any involvement with that service, which requires specific skills and training.

I’ve no idea what M&S approach to hiring bra fitters is but it seems entirely irrelevant to this particular employee.

okay so her daughter wouldn’t mind being approached by a trans woman in the lingerie department but the vast majority of young teen age girls would

Exactly, it's the arrogance of this kind of reasoning that's so infuriating.

Why does this woman think her daughter's reaction is the benchmark for all young girls? Plenty of teenagers would be made deeply uncomfortable by this. Why does this journo think we shouldn't listen to the young girl involved?

But none of that happened did it?

The employee offered help. It was declined. They left. That’s it.

So much BS on this story.

Have a look at this from a live M&S advert for a customer assistant in clothing and homeware. One of the tasks is to: "Proactively engage with customers to understand their needs, make recommendations and deliver remarkable service throughout their visit to store." (emphasis is mine). So this employee was adhering to what M&S expects their customer service staff to do.

There is no suggestion that the employee offered to, or wanted to, or was even qualified to do a bra fitting as has been claimed.

The mother claims that she was stood close to her daughter. So the employee approached an adult and her child to ask if they needed help. In line with the expectations of M&S for their employees. And when they said no thank you, she left them to it.

Oh and the claims that the employee only worked in a different Department is also wide of the mark. M&S have confirmed that “We have written to this customer and explained that our colleagues typically work across all departments in our stores and customers can always ask to speak to the colleague they feel most comfortable with.”

Let's park the fact that it's not been confirmed that the employee was trans. That is besides the point. The point is that a trans employee approaching an adult and her teenage daughter to ask if they needed help (which can be anything from advice on products, directions, facilitating booking a fitting), in line with their employer's job description, and accepting it when they said no, is behaving entirely appropriately.

No teen needs help or needs to be offered any ‘help’ from any male employee in a lingerie department. From a nice well meaning man, from the worst man to walk the planet, from a man cosplaying as a woman.

It’s not difficult.

But none of that happened did it?

The employee offered help. It was declined. They left. That’s it.

It is common practice for staff to cover multiple departments and areas. It really is getting to the point where simply offering customer assistance isn’t ok by some people now.

Shop layouts can be confusing so offering basic help, regardless of shop area, is basic customer service.

I am calling this out for what it is, transphobia.

I work in retail, we have male colleagues in the prep area behind the scenes working deliveries. That includes unpacking and handling bras and underwear.

We have male colleagues specialised in baby car seats and working in the children’s departments.

Being male or female, trans or not, has no effect on their ability to do their job. Believe me, colleagues would talk and report if there was any concern over a colleague.

A male walks up to a teen girl and offers to help so asks her what size her breasts are.

A male walks up to a teen girl and offers to help so asks her what colour material would she like covering her breasts.

A male walks up to a teen girl and offers to help by finding someone to measure her breasts.

You were thinking as long as the male stayed out the changing rooms what’s the problem?

Maybe - but creating a pile on on a specific and easily identifiable individual based on the say so of an anonymous person whose story is riddled with holes is a totally irresponsible and reprehensible way to make that point.

Exactly

I don’t think that gets away from the fact that safeguarding training now needs to be considered by retailers. It is far too easy for those with inappropriate intentions to access young people and I am not saying that this was the case in M&S.

There have been far too many instances of paedophiles hiding in plain sight, sometimes with police friends eg Stephen Ireland of Surrey Pride and the Surrey Police

No. It has remained it is perfectly reasonably behaviour because the claims made by the mother that could render it unreasonable do not stack up.

I was thinking this. It could have been offering to help as in find a particular bra in her size or colour preference, or locate a woman who is available to carry out a bra fitting. As long as he stayed out the changing rooms what’s the problem?