To think this journalist from the independent is rather deluded ?

She wasn't unaccompanied.

And if there was an unaccompanied crying toddler in an M&S store, I would 100% expect a staff member, whether male or female, to intervene and help.

For claritys sake, (as there seems a lot of mis-reporting on this story.) Go over to X and find Jane Doe, the mother. She states her daughter was not close by to her when the male shop assistant approached the 14yr old and offered assistance with a bra fitting. She quickly intervened. The T brigade and transmaidens leave this bit out. Thankfully JKRs account/page is more accurate.

M&S has a policy of not approaching customers browsing.

So why did he approach a lone teen in the lingerie department when he worked in a different floor in a different department?

If he was regularly approaching customers in his own department then why had no manager spotted it and stopped him approaching customers as per company policy?

If he didn't regularly approach customers, then that asked even bigger questions about why he chose to approach a lone teen in the lingerie department of all places?

It's inappropriate for a man to approach a lone teen and ask if she needed help in the lingerie section because the only way the conversation can go is about details of her underwear if she engages. This is not ok.

In every safeguarding situation it's not ok.

Safeguarding teaches people not to put themselves into risky situations where they could be accused even if someone is acting innocently. If you do you fail safeguarding.

Why?

Because any such engagement can't be allowed because if you let one person off because they 'are a good person' it makes it harder to deal with people who aren't so innocent because of blurred boundaries. This we make boundaries clear so that everyone knows what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.

There are numerous safeguarding fails in this situation.

Again this is premised on the mother's perception being the correct one. She was close enough to both hear and respond. 'Can I help you with anything?' said to two people together can be easily presented as directed at one, the other, or both together.

What defamatory spin?

Yes, a man is responsible for their own actions. That includes making a teenager uncomfortable. Their actions were inappropriate in this case. Hence why an apology followed.

We can see you.

So you think it is appropriate for a male to approach a teenage girl buying underwear?

I can guarantee you that it is not M&S policy to encourage male staff to 'proactively engage' with 14 year old girls shopping for bras in the lingerie department.

You already know that - because you can't be that stupid. So why are you pretending not to?

Well, firstly, we haven't heard from this girl. So there's nothing to believe or disbelieve from her.

As for disbelieving her mother - most of what has been claimed is not in dispute. What is in dispute is the defamatory spin that has been put on those facts.

There isn't a specific cohort of staff who work in lingerie though. If you mean bra fitters specifically, then yes, there may well be an argument for DBS checking. I'm not aware of any failures of safeguarding in bra fittings in M&S.

But it is entirely irrelevant to this case as the employee was not a bra fitter and did not purport to be. They are a retail assistant, whose job description likely includes a duty to proactively engage with customers, who did so and then withdrew once it was clear that help was not needed or wanted.

DBS checking entirely irrelevant in this situation. Even safeguarding not relevant here. Retail staff aren't involved in intimate care, retail staff of either sex working in or offering help in any Department is not a safeguarding issue.

Of course if their conduct were in some other way nefarious or could be legitimately perceived as such, that could be a safeguarding issue. But again, not the case in this situation.

Exactly. You can't compare trans people to people of different colour ffs

Facts that appear to be undisputed are as follows:

A man approached a 14 year old in the lingerie department.

It doesn’t matter how he was dressed.
It doesn’t matter what he said
it doesn’t matter what his intentions were.

No men should ever be approaching teenage girls in the lingerie department.

There is no possible excuse that makes that ok.

The issue is not that he is trans it is that he is male.

Anyone who thinks that a male, who shouldn't have been there in the first place, has any business talking to a child about buying a bra needs their hard wire checked.

Creating a sacred caste is exactly how men have got away with things in the past. People are literally losing their minds over trying to excuse inappropriate male behaviour because of how the man feels about himself.

And whatever happened to 'I believe her'? This is a teenage girl FFS.

A retail staff member asking a customer if they need help, in line with their employer's requirement that they proactively engage with customers, is not responsible if that act makes them uncomfortable.

All they can do is do their job, and then withdraw as soon as it is clear that their help is not needed or wanted. Which is precisely what they did.

I must give off bad vibes or something because despite spending far too much time in M&S the staff never approach me about anything. It's not that kind of store.

Remus, it’s very clear the assistant was trans because two women could tell they were looking at a man and not a woman. M&S haven’t said anything to the contrary in their reply to the mother. Why do you think that might be?

Men should not be staffing ladies’ lingerie departments and offering advice with teen bras, thongs, stockings, support garments, post-surgery bras etc etc etc etc etc. It should be obvious why it makes many women uncomfortable. This man was dressing as a woman and approaching a minor who was looking at bras. That is the sort of man that our instincts warn us to stay away from because it has all the marks of autogynophilia. Men hanging around bra departments used to be treated as weird - what could they possibly want? Now they can dress as women, approach 14 year old girls and people like you and this silly journalist will throw open your arms because you are just so kind and inclusive.

If I recall correctly from another article, the mother says she didn’t think he saw she was there due to a board in the way. The girl was approached while seemingly alone.

I’ll tell you why I know he’s bloody weird - because he thought it was ok to approach a teenager looking at bras while dressed as a fucking woman, that’s why. My husband, brothers, dad and son wouldn’t do that.

People are extraordinarily hard of thinking.

Fancy being able to think that a man approaching a young teen girl in a bra department is ok.

I mean, maybe ‘Excise me Miss, you dropped your purse!’, or ‘Excuse me, that’s the fire alarm we all need to evacuate the store, please follow the other customers to the exit.’.

Yes. The mother's account is completely coherent and the M & S apology very clear.
It's always disappointing to see posters on Mumsnet trying to undermine women and mothers safeguarding their children. I get it's a thing for some people - denying the rights of women and girls to have boundaries runs through transgender ideology like a stick of rock.

He got caught out and the transactivists need to accept that. Time to start dealing with the numerous predators (judging by the Ministry of Justice's alarming statistics) and to stop policing and silencing women.

Very strange choice by Independent

The bra section at M&S perhaps.

Well it's an M&S bra model. I agree it's a bit weird, but I'm not sure what else they could have put there

Why is the image on the article so sexualised?

Notsosure1 · Today 07:55
I was thinking this.
It could have been offering to help as in find a particular bra
• In her size or
• colour preference, or
• locate a woman who is available to carry out a bra fitting.
As long as he stayed out the changing rooms what’s the problem?

Notsosure1 · Today 08:19
I think context is everything here.
Obviously if he was approaching her
• in a darkened corner and
• asking her how big her new breasts were and
• what type of bra would suit them,
• that is grotesque.
If on the other hand he merely asked if she needed any help - how is that predatory?

When woman can mean male (or female) person and that person can be predatroy for sexual thrills in any situation.

5 - describing a mother who advocates for their daughter as being ‘Pearl clutching’ is not the insult you think it is. @Agix @Soontobe60

Absolutely! I would rather be a pearl clutcher than someone who would enable or turn a blind eye to child protection

No, just NO! Males, regardless as to how they identify or look, have NO business approaching teen females to ‘offer assistance’ in buying a bra. How you think this compares to someone with a birth mark, hearing impairment or learning disability is beyond belief. I’m embarrassed for you.