To think most “mum friendship groups” are just thinly veiled cliques?

Just do what I do, run late constantly so you avoid them all. I don't get involved in school drama and I don't care if they like me. I am polite and invite the children to parties and for playdates but none of them are my friends.

Could you give an example? I have no idea what you mean.

@Strawberrymatcha5

Some women don’t need hoards of friendship groups, value quality over quantity and see school
groups for what they are- social and academic competitive parenting groups.

But clearly OP isn't one of these women or she wouldn't be lashing out on Mumsnet about how these groups are all exclusionary?

You can't have it both ways. If you think these groups are bullshit then just ignore them. Complaining they exist suggests some feeling of entitlement to be included and irritation that they are not.

I think @5128gap has it just right. These sorts of threads are initiated by a poster who has identified what she thinks is a group of "cool kids" or "successful mums" who she thinks she needs to ingratiate herself with for her kids' social success and then gets the hump and lashes out when this group doesn't immediately jump to welcome her.

It actually suggests a very cynical outlook on life to expect that you are entitled to join every social group by default.

Completely agree. Is everyone supposed to be friends with everyone? People are always going to get on better with some people than others.

And frankly these posts are always tinged with internal misogyny. If some women get on better with a few other women it’s a “bitchy clique” rather than a group of women who happen to get on and have common interests or a similar sense of humour etc. If it was men, they’d just be considered normal mates.

This.

These posts are ridiculous 🙄 and sexist

I suggest you join the school governors or parents association op. If you want power and knowledge then go and get it

We didn’t have WhatsApp groups back in the day (thank the Lord) but I didn’t care about ‘mum groups’ I was happy to be in a bubble with my kids and I eventually formed friendships with the mums who my kids played with.

I was aware of cliques and groups that went to the pub together but they reminded me of insecure 16 year olds with a herd mentality. I would not have wanted to be part of that if they'd begged me.

Far better to be a cool lone wolf and be discerning about who you and your children pass the time with. My kids are adults now and two of those school gate women are still good friends all these years later. So the ‘lone wolf’ approach still works!

Maybe if you're experiencing this a lot, it's a you problem? You seem to be the common denominator?

Information, reminders, help with school stuff that's not the role of random school mums.
social support during tricky moments again not the role of random school mums.
You seem to see them as official school staff support workers for you, while also being some form of mumfiosa...

The trick, I find, is to have a life that extends beyond the school gates.

Maybe a job or a hobby?

Some women don’t need hoards of friendship groups, value quality over quantity and see school
groups for what they are- social and academic competitive parenting groups. When did it become necessary to navigate primary school having your hand held by multiple groups?

A clique - a group of people who do not readily allow others to join them.

Friendship -state of mutual trust and support between allied nations.

There is limited mutual trust and support in these groups and often a lot of gossip, bickering over ridiculous things, exclusion and schoolyard behaviour.

I’ve been in them and seen it all.

You should be getting this stuff from school directly. If you aren’t, take it up with the school. Friendship groups of parents who are probably well-engaged with the school, of have older siblings, are in no way bound to pass this on to everyone like a public service.

I am friends with two other mothers. We met through a toddler group and our children went to school together. The kids are now 22. We are friends, not a clique. I'm not sure how these school gate cliques you have identified operate in a different way to a group of friends op.

What's usually going on in these situations is that there's a group of women you have decided are the 'right' people for you to be friends with. Not because you like them (you see them as exclusionary and cliquey, right?) But because YOU have decided they are superior. Maybe because they are wealthy, cool, throw good parties, have DC who you would like your child to access, or whatever. Unfortunately they do not agree that you should be in their friendship circle, so your social ambition is thwarted. You feel that you and your DC are missing out on the 'best' social stuff. So you become resentful that the group exists at all, if it doesn't include you. This is pointless as it will just continue to make you upset. You need instead to accept the situation and work on building your own friendships and create social opportunities for yourself with other people.

even among mums.

God forbid that women who've given birth act the same as every other human being on the planet. The very cheeky of them.

Friendships happen. Some are close and supportive, some are a loose affiliation of people who have to be at the same place everyday.

Just because they aren't interested in being your friend doesn't make them a clique. Not everyone will like you. Plenty of people don't like me, I'm sure, and the world keeps turning.

School holidays. This means it’s either the insecure mums feeling left out, or children looking to shit stir for creative writing courses.

Don’t forget gate keeping of information and opportunities. State secrets, I assume.

@Isthisfairorwhat

so many fake friendships
that don’t last past primary

But that's true in all walks of life. Most work friendships don't survive after people have left that employer. It's just called being sociable.

No one is entitled to a friendship. A lot of social interaction is to some extent self-serving. But that doesn't mean that there's something insidious or cynical about people bonding and trying to get on while they are together.

You're sending your kids a very damaging message if you teach them they are entitled to be friends with everyone.

A friendship group of Mums who happened to meet at school gate "thrives on hierarchy, control and exclusion. It’s less about natural connection and more about status or dominance" ?!

Blimey, sounds like a conspiracy novel

What info are they 'gatekeeping'? What are they excluding you from?
Your words here are highly emotive so agree with pp HUGE backstory!

What kind of information or opportunities are they gate keeping?

What make school mum friendships groups is the children and the effect it can have in the children

which is why it is so different from any other friendship groups formed elsewhere

theres a lot of people that are part of groups or cliques that wish they weren’t
but it pays to get along to get along

so many fake friendships
that don’t last past primary

so I’d say don’t sweat it
get along to get along as much as you can
and invest time and energy in your real friends
it’s only a phase that will pass

@SharpMintReader

But when those groups dominate a setting like the school gate and shape who’s included, informed or supported, it’s not just harmless bonding anymore. It does affect other parents. The issue isn’t friendship, it’s when access, influence and inclusion start to hinge on being in the inner circle.

But that's life. Any social network in life by definition involves some exclusion because not everyone in the world can be included? Men do this all the time at work: they have drinking groups, golf groups or cycling groups or football groups. Women do it in other social settings (hobbies/volunteering). Why is it considered legitimate in these circumstances but not at school?

Instead of tying yourself up in knots worrying about why you've been "excluded" you'd do yourself (and ultimately your kids) a favour working a bit on your own social awareness and social skills and figuring out how to work with other people without imposing this paranoid mindset on the world. Other people are allowed to form friendships/social groups which don't include you. You have to make peace with this.