To think most “mum friendship groups” are just thinly veiled cliques?

So take some control yourself then. Social power and influence in the setting you describe isn't something that's handed out to a fortunate few by the school. If this group of mums have greater influence and are more in the know about school matters, it will generally be because they've got in there, got involved, created networks themselves. There is nothing to stop you doing the same. You may never secure in invitations for your family to events organised out of school by this group, but that's too bad. Make your own group. However there's no excuse for remaining ill informed or silent on school matters.

@Thepeopleversuswork

When men have a friendship group its "bonding" or "networking". When women do it its "bitchy, cliquey, school gate mums". It's so depressing and infuriating.

That is pretty much accurate though. As a whole, whilst female friends can be invaluable when everything is going right, they can turn really nasty when you fall out, and the friendship goes go tits up. They sometimes gang up with other women, and can be really unpleasant. Male friendship groups don't tend to go down this route.

Not sexist, just factual.

Yet here you are commenting and thus helping to make it into active convos

Just -why? Hide it and move on is surely a better option for you

Obviously we’d all have mums we related to more but there did seem to be a few impenetrable cliques where an outsider's smile was met with a confused look. There were a few mums I got on well with but we weren’t a group, more just 1:1. I am still friends with a couple of the primary school gate mums even though our kids have now graduated or are still at uni. No idea about the politics though, I just felt it was more like attracting like.

Yes I have to agree - definitely AI.

I haven’t experienced this at all. Though there are definitely mums I’m not interested in being friends with. Because they aren’t very nice or their kids are a real PITA or I don’t have anything in common with them or they are hardcore Reform supporters.

I’m friends with people I like and not friends with any I don’t. That said, my friends are generally not mums from the school gate. I have a full life beyond being a parent and doing the school run. My friends are largely people I’ve known for 10, 20, 30 years or they are people I met at work or through hobbies. I think the problem is too many women base their whole lives around taking their kids to school and back. There are so many more ways to make friends and fill your days. I couldn’t care less if Jimmy and Bobby’s mums invite me for cake and gossip.

I’m not interested any WhatsApp groups either, though Dh is in a dads WhatsApp group with his dad friends. It’s called The Fat Dads and they do fat dad things like going to the pub, cycling and taking the kids away for weekend camping trips so us mums get a break. It’s generally free of drama, but they do like to gossip about other dads. 😂

@THisbackwithavengeance

I think if you dismiss cliques as non existent and irrelevant then you’ve clearly never been the victim of exclusion from one and you’re likely in the school gate Queen Bee Clique already.

But the thing is there are "cliques" (if that's how you want to characterise them) in absolutely every social environment in the world. You can talk about the "Queen Bee Clique" in a way which suggests a very negative and toxic but that's a very subjective take. You say "clique", someone else says "friendship group". But calling someone who you don't know a "Queen Bee" because they're not your friend suggests that this is a you problem first and foremost. It's impossible to know what this "Queen Bee" has done. What have they actually done? I'm prepared to bet good money it's nothing more than just failing to invite you to something.

That may hurt you, but I'm afraid that's life. You aren't entitled to join anything.

Totally agree. Who is peddling this idea that taking your kids to school is this jolly social event, all mums together, everyone talks to everyone and there's a night out every Friday? And then when women start taking their kids to school and find that actually, some people will talk to people they know already, others are absorbed in their phone, others dump and run off to work, and others stand there actively avoiding eye contact, they think it's a "clique"?

Who is joining the class or year WhatsApp group for a “support network”?

ours is for PTA events info, sharing reminders for money to be sent in, trips, dress up days, etc, party invites or asking general questions.

I’m also part of a smaller group of mum’s who got on well after our first night out - we have similar sense of humour and are into similar things. I’m sure to other parents they might consider us a “clique” but, as an adult, I don’t have to be in a group with people I don’t really get on with.
I also have separate chats with mums who aren’t even in that separate group - would that be considered cliquey?

school WhatsApp groups might be school related, but we aren’t children in school

I agree with both sides of the argument. On the one hand, people can be friends without being part of a clique. Just because they are friends doesn't mean they are intentionally isolating others.
On the other hand, I have definitely witnessed toxic behaviour amongst some " school mum" groups. To anyone who is introverted and making friends doesn't come too easily, I can see why some might be perceived as cliques. I have had school mum friends who I saw in my own time so I understand that side of it, but I've also definitely been on the wrong side of an unpleasant group of women at the school. One mum in particular wouldn't look at me or speak to me when in a group, would elbow past me, in short tried to make me feel intimidated. It turned out she had had an affair with another school mum's husband and he had previously made a comment about fancying me and so from then on she had a personal vendetta against me. Ultimately, I think it comes down to the fact some people are nice and others are not so nice, but maybe being forced to mix with the same people twice a day for 7 ish years exacerbates that.

Yeah there’s having school gate chats and there is feeling “excluded and offended” or whatever because you’re worried about some school playground popularity contest.

It’s not about being superior. It’s about having a bit of fucking perspective. Women need to have their own lives that extend beyond family and motherhood.

OP’s posts are definitely AI. It’s easy to tell.

I am surprised at the results @SharpMintReader because I agree with you 100%. I used to HATE the school gate mafia. It's OK if you're in the clique, but not so much if you're not. I did used to find the cliques broke up though (eventually,) and the women would be at each others throats, and slagging each other off to anyone who would listen. It was glorious to see... 😆

I work full time so there would be groups of Mums talking in the playground who I wouldn’t automatically join (and it would be odd if I just sauntered up) because they see each other every day and have formed friendships I necessarily wasn’t part of.

When I was there, I would talk to people I knew if they were there or if not I didn’t. I often ended up chatting to the grandparents who were usually very lovely and easy to chat to. And the people I knew included dads as well as mums.

And I was the PTA class rep! I didn’t have a clique.

I did have Mums I was friends with (still am post primary) but they wouldn’t always be there as most people I know also work. Or might be chatting to someone else!

I think getting involved can make a difference. The 'popular Mums' were on the PTA - so they just knew each other from there and were friends at some level. Not really a clique, just people who had got to know each other by being in the same things. I tend to gravitate to people I have things in common with too.

Oh god I missed the 3 word username (with a colour in it as well )!!

Ah the old AI dismissal when you get posts you don’t like and struggle to respond to, treading a little close to the truth are we.

I was so wary as someone with few friends who was bullied at school but I decided to take a leap of faith for my daughter when she started school. I just said yes to parties and play date offers. I stayed for coffee if offered and I reciprocated in kind. If you do your share of picking up and dropping off it seems to work. My daughter is 18 and still friends with many of her classmates and I have the joy of making new friends and healing the pain I felt at school. I always watch out for people on the fringes of groups or those standing on their own. They might not want to join in or be too busy but I try to ask just in case due to my own school history.

Aren't all friendship groups basically cliques. Either these people are your friends or they aren't - you don't become friends just because you gave birth at roughly the same time.

They are AI generated. The replies are so obviously chat GPT, it’s laughable.

Always a user name made of 3 words too.

Can't say I felt it my child is older now looking back we just felt like the mature intelligent grown ups that we are who were too busy for childish dramas and just got on with whatever we had to do

Exactly this. Can’t we stop this stupid misogyny?? Are groups of male friends full of supposedly toxic politics and exclusion or does this just apply to women?

For the record my “school gate mums” friendship groups consist of lovely, mutually supportive women who helped each other through some tough times and who I still see now my kids are young adults.

And its also possible to work and have time for school gate chats, being too busy to stop and chat doesn't make you superior

I have no idea what kind of opportunities or information you think people are gatekeeping.

Anything regarding the school should be sent from the school. Some parents will be closer to others, same as the children are and indeed all kinds of relationships in any group in every situation.

I’m with those saying they’re just friendship groups.

I mean I get it to an extent. The school gates are somewhere where you’re forced to be every day (or not if your work full time, but forced to be at least sometimes, and there’s the WhatsApp) and see / deal with frequently. So you can’t just go away and not see people who you don’t get on with again.

So it does leave the door open for some people to act like they’re at school again themselves.

And there’s the added pressure because it impacts your DC to an extent, or can do.

But people are allowed to have friends.

I think adults just have a duty to act like adults when it comes to things they might organise in the name of the school. We didnt have all this business at my kids’ school, or not in their year. People have lives to get on with.