To think most “mum friendship groups” are just thinly veiled cliques?

Out of interest, what makes your group of three different from the other groups of ‘insecure 16 year olds’?

The others may well have been friends (hence going to the pub together etc) because their kids were playing together - exactly the same way as you met your gang?

Oh no, I shall self-flagellate.

Just to check, can I talk to my next door neighbour even though our kids are in the same class without inviting everyone else, or is that cliquey too? I just want to check because I don't want to be a Queen Bee, but we do sometimes talk about the bin collections?

Cliques obviously do exist in all spheres of life. I think that the playground amplifies emotions because your children are also involved. Obviously there are people you get on with more than others. I had friends who were school mums because our children were friends. We might not have ever spent time together if not. Some people engineer their children's social lives so that they get to spend time with their own friends. If you are a SAHM you can feel pretty isolated, so social interaction feels more important, even if you know that these people aren't going to be BFFs and/or if your children are being excluded, because you aren't part of the clique, then that can feel like you are letting them down.

:-). I love your honesty. Many feel the same.

I went to work part time after school drop offs so didn't always do pick ups, my in laws did some. When I did collect I would try and arrive at the last minute so no standing around. Later on, at 'big' school, my husband dropped off and son eventually made his own way home. I wasn't unfriendly at all, I got to know some other parents through the children's friendships but I can't do superficial chit chat and gossip.

@Chompingatthebeat

So if you don't notice cliques youre a queen bee bitch basically? Theres a whole world of people in between just living their normal lives as best they can

I know. It's so rude and entitled to assume that anyone with any basic social skills, or anyone who doesn't waste time worrying about the social groupings at school is a "queen bee bitch".

If someone is an overbearing dick and tries to throw their weight around in any social or professional environment you just walk away from them. It's not that hard. In the vast majority of case though the so-called "queen bee bitch" is just an extrovert, someone socially confident or someone who does a lot of the social organising and is resented by the people who haven't thought to do the same.

Agree @Frogs88 so where does this idea come from that drop off / pick up is the time you make all your friends?

I think previous posters who said they suspect many women ditch their old friends when they get married or have a baby are spot on - 5 years down the line their old friends have moved on, their "baby" is at school and they suddenly realise they have not as many social connections as they would like, then get very jealous and insecure about people who have friends. Either that, or they are people who have never had a solid friend group developed through their own school days, Uni, work or hobbies and think that when their own child starts school it will be miraculously different.

I disagree with 95% of what the OP has said. But, I think there can sometimes be an impact when these friendships become so tightknit that it excludes other children - I haven't experienced it myself but I have met women whose child finds themselves very upset because at school they play happily with Mary but because Mary's mum is friends with Johnny and Jenny's mums, Mary, Johnny and Jenny do a lot together and the other child is excluded and playdates are not responded to etc. It could, of course, just be that Mary isn't as good a friend as the child thinks, but that's not hte way it seems.

The only other time I've seen this sort of weird clique thing vs an actual friendship group was a few years ago when a medium sized group of friends started working on a big fundraising project for the school. Lots of people were keen to be part of it and to contribute, but they would only allow people in their group to take part, or by selective invitation. But there was a high expectation that when the event took place, everyone would come and bring their children, and spend money, and lavish them with praise.

Interestingly, they did it for a few years but the backlash got worse and worse, they raised less money every year and eventually they stopped. So it didn't work out for them!

Just imagining everyone standing in a huge circle and having an allotted number of sentences they are allowed to utter in order that everyone gets the same social look in…

I really don’t understand when friendship groups supposedly become cliques. I don’t look at school pick up/drop off times as a social event so I don’t view other mums having friendship groups as a negative and don’t think everyone has to be friends just because our kids are at the same school.

Quite clearly you are, @MoreDangerousThanAWomanScorned . Shame on you. You are not allowed to talk to people you already know, you must actively go around the gate and gather everyone up for a group discussion, making sure everyone is included. And if you don't do that, you're a Queen Bee bitch.

Absolutely barking.

No it was a response to the person who quoted you and said that people who disagree with the OP must be part of the cliques thenselves. I just coincidently said 'wrong side' (of the hierarchy) it wasn't a reference to being on the wrong side of an individual who has it in for you, which is a different thing from merely not being included in a friendship group.

Do you think they are talking about you in the group chat?

I like some of the other mums (and dads) in my kid's class more than others. I tend to talk more often to the ones I already knew from before the kids started school. Am I in a clique?

So if you don't notice cliques youre a queen bee bitch basically? Theres a whole world of people in between just living their normal lives as best they can

To me, they’re just groups of friends. I made some lovely friendships with other school mums.

However, I can see how feeling excluded from a friendship group at the school gate might feel particularly bad.

-Simply being in a school setting might trigger painful memories of cliques at school.

• People also seem to worry a lot on here about whether their child is likely to be excluded from social occasions because the mums aren’t friends.

• I also suspect that people sometimes feel uncomfortable with the idea that their child might notice that their mum isn’t in the group and feel bad about it or else perceive her differently in some way.

Nope. I’m a sahm and couldn’t give a fuck who the other mums are friends with and am happy to keep the school gate chit chat to the absolute bare minimum.

I don't remember this sort of thing when I was a kid. People just went to school and came home again..there weren't groups of people hanging round the school gates. But then I suppose that was the days when kids walked to school on their own.. I suppose it's too risky now.

I like people, dont mind what setting i happen to meet them in

I am in the "last ones standing" - the three core besties out of ten original baby group friends.

We're going away together as a three this week. We invite a fourth quite often, and a fifth also. The fourth never reaches out to us even though we reach out to her. The fifth is a funny one - she is quite insecure and drops judgemental comments in amongst excessive politeness.

The three of us gel really well. The fourth is also lovely, but she never initiates and never seems to look for the same support from each other so there's less of a bond.

So sue me, I'm in the clique, three women who happen to have really bonded for this time of their life.

No, I'm not overly friendly but I chime in on the mums WhatsApp group.
There's 15 on it, started 5 years ago.
You can tell who the paranoid people are in the group.
They are the childish ones.
I'm not in a school gate group, never have been.

Just stop seeing it as a "setting" to be dominated. It's a place you drop off and pick up your kids. Why does it need to be a social opportunity? I have never made a single friend through my kids. Why would I automatically have anything in common with my kids' friends' parents? I make my friends doing things I like.

What popularity contests?

100% yes.
I’ve been around nasty little cliques my whole life, so I know one when I see one and most of these are.

I stupidly thought the popularity contests would stop when I left school.

People have friendship groups. People have different friendship groups according to where and what the friendships are.

No one has to be friends with everyone. It actually isn't possible.

They're not cliques. They are just group of friends.

I work in a setting where a click seem to dominate. Its hard being on the outside.
Nobody tells you you are excluded (so you can't pull someone up on it) but they are not inviting or welcoming either. The body language tells you you will be ignored if you approach. I have been shut out.
I have come to the conclusion that this dynamic does exist. Its not in my mind. I think its subconsciously done for power, control and image. They all tend to mirror one another and feel threatened by those who do their own thing or can not control.