To ground dd(13) all summer?

I would remove her phone as she can't be trusted to use it safely- I would give her a very basic brick of a phone so that she can still message friends but with no internet access. This isn't a punishment as such, but a consequence until she can prove she can use her phone responsibly.

I was never a fan of grounding, as it always seemed to be as much of a punishment for DH and I as for DS. I would only use it as a last resort because (as you rightly say) the risk of rebellion is so great if you cannot police her 24/7

Have to agree with other PPs - time for the chat. You can explain about why you are worried. She can explain why she is doing things behind your back.
I’d look up some age appropriate videos too from the police and other related professionals that can illustrate your concerns so she doesn’t dismiss them as just your DH being over protective.
I wouldn’t ground her as that may just force her to feel she has no choice but to escalate the sneaking out and deception. You need to understand the ‘why’ of it.

I would ground her, and move to strict curfews as the summer progresses, loosening the reins as she shows she can be trusted. Or indeed if she breaks it again, just ground her until further notice.
If she can’t behave like a responsible teenager, she’s treated like a child. Simple.

she then last night climbed out of her bedroom window to meet her friend at our gate which we saw on our security camera. It looked like something was handed over during their short talk which she has denied.

That would really worry me - and the lying though plans changing I'd be more relaxed about.

I'd take the phones for now - may also search her room but that could be harder and have more push back and cause more issues.

However I also agree with PP it's communication that's needed - is she in trouble what going on that a usually well behaved child is doing this - so a sit down series of talks and chance to earn back freedom.

Personally I think there should be puishment and communication and that's a fine line to find and does need both of you on the same page.

I absolutely agree with this. My ex is the same and it has caused so much anxiety. for our kids. They are now young adults and have realised that the world isn't this big scary place where people are out to get them and they are finally happy again.

I don't agree with grounding children, and I think the age that OPs DD is she is going to be doing little things like these but nothing that she has done is in any way horrible. I would go very easy on her and focus on open communication and to build trust. It has always worked with mine and now they are comfortable telling me anything and everything, sometime more than I really need to know.

It sounds like she doesn't tell you things or hides things from you because you (or your DH) are going to say no. That is why you have to be realistic with boundaries at that age otherwise they just lie and respect goes out the window. Sit down with her and discuss boundaries that are acceptable. Allow her to do more and you may find she stays within the boundaries. It might mean that your DH has to be pushed out his comfort zone of what she is allowed to do but you have to be realistic. Grounding her for the whole summer is not going to work on any level.

I think ground her for a week, if she misses the big trip, so be it. Then I would set a curfew, home by 6.00. Miss that you're grounded the next day. The second phone and sneaking out are very worrying. Window locks are an idea but my granddaughter smashed them off and still left. I would try to explain you and your dh's concerns to her but expect fireworks. Trust has to be earned and not betrayed, she's definitely done the latter. I understand her dad is very concerned but over reacting will probably make things worse not better.

Grounding only really works in short bursts in my opinion. Also grounding a 13 year old for the summer is unrealistic let’s face it and more of a punishment to yourself than her, unless you can be with her 24/7 this sounds like a total ball ache to me.

Grounding a child who will climb out a window and has a burner phone is never going to work full stop.

You need a serious chat yes with consequences, she doesn’t need to check in every 20 minutes that’s overkill, all phones she has need to be left down of an evening and I’d be checking the wifi to make sure she’s not connected more because a friend could easily drop one off for her.

Taking away the phone full time and a grounding will just make a teen like her who’s already prepared to sneak out with a burner do more because she’s already lost everything. So she’s nothing lose by running away to jennys house for a week with a new burner.

I’d ground her but maybe not all summer. She’s obviously up to no good so I’d be finding out what she’s up to and take all devices off her at night xxx

How much older are the kids she is hanging out with? Climbing out a bedroom window in the middle of the night is not normal 13 year old behaviour. Do you know these older kids? Is she the only 13 year old hanging out with the older kids? I would be very concerned about sex or drugs.

I know you say she is usually very well behaved but have you been paying close enough attention? A 13 year old having a secret phone and messaging through the night is a huge deception when she knows she's not meant to be on the phone overnight.

You need to put some boundaries back in place as it sounds as though she is spiralling out of control. I do however think that grounding her for the entire summer is the wrong punishment and she would probably find a way round it given what you have already written about her behaviour.

I agree with PP that plans change and it may not have been malicious on her part but rather poor communication. That's a skill which teens and young adults have to learn. However, the sneaking out is much more concerning. Don't push her away if that's already her MO. She needs consequences but they have to be enforceable and realistic. If she feels the punishment is so harsh that she's got 'nothing' to lose, then she might only get more devious. It's a tightrope OP. Having raised two teens already, I can only sympathise. Your DH's anxiety is not something she should suffer for. He needs to address the issues that his eldest's experiences have left him with. Your DD is not responsible for what happened to her sister, nor is history necessarily going to repeat itself.

My mum did this when I was a teen. It was not good. I resented her so much we didn’t talk and a bad situation got worse. It took a long time for our relationship to recover.

Why is she using a burner phone? Is it illegal activity or is it that she has a boyfriend and doesn't want parents to see messages?

You and your husband need to be on the same page, whatever you decide so dedintely have a conversation with him about the balance between safety and maintaining a good relationship. I understand his desire to ground her for whole summer, and probably for ever (!) as another parent who has seen their daughter harmed.
I would "ground" her till the trip but not as punishment, as a time to discuss and set boundaries, then review and monitor all together.

Word of caution op, my ex is like your dh. Terrified of the world and went on exactly like that. My daughter is nearly 17 and now terrified to leave the house and has social anxiety to the max thanks to him. Tread carefully, your dh needs to manage his emotions around this and be proportionate or he’ll cause more damage than a bunch of older kids in the friend group ever will

Chores to be done - if she wants to go on the trip with friends next week then she can earn it through chores. If she doesn't do the chores she clearly doesn't want to go on the trip enough. Earning your privileges is, to my mind a far better way than sitting in the house grounded

I would be really worried that she has got mixed up in county lines. She has another phone and sneaking out to hand packages over?

“get them to text them your number” not “mum” Sorry predictive texting !

Hi OP some good advise here. I think you and DH need to think about what you’re aiming for. I’m assuming it’s safety and the comfort of a good relationship which means knowing (as much as you can) that your daughter will turn to you for help and to foster a high level of trust. Unfortunately a punitive approach doesn’t work well and your daughter may well just rebel.

1. I would have a family meeting and decide on some ground rules with her input.
2. Tell her that if she is ever worried or in trouble you should always be her first point of call. You will never be cross if she calls you no matter what time etc
3. Put her on a tracking Life 360 is something similar and tell her she is on probation for the next 2 weeks. Lots of communication with you and make sure that her friends have your numbers just in case her phone dies - she can always text you. Get her to text them your mum be in front of you or when you next see them. I’ve done that and told the parents we are happy to do the same.
4. Reinforce the motto “The more communication and trust the more freedom you will be given.”
5. Have a proper heart to heart about the sneaking out / handing over package incident and try and get to the bottom of it.

Check what she has been saying on her sister's old phone. Remove that phone. How old was the friend at the gate? Talk to her about why she climbed out the window.

Grounding for the whole summer is ridiculous but you need to know more about what has been going on and why. Then tell her she's broken your trust, you are thinking of grounding her and see what she considers fair punishment for the loss of trust.

As for the big trip - where and can you trust who she is going with?

Have you checked the phone that she’s been using behind your back? Probably too late if not as she’ll have deleted anything compromising now she knows you know about it.
What is worrying is you don’t actually know what she’s up to or what the handover at the gate was. County lines is a possibility as a PP said.
I don’t think grounding is the answer but you need to get to the bottom of this.

TALK TO HER. Like an adult. If she wants to act like an adult she needs to know the risks of what comes with being an adult.

But really TALK TO HER. Grounding her is silly. It treats her like a baby and everything she is doing is saying she wants to be an adult. So talk to her about all the risks, about sex, about consent about porn, about knives, about drugs, about addiction about everything.
TALK TO HER. Stop babyfying her. She's growing up and you're not keeping up.