To not go on holiday on Monday

Don't go, give yourself a break, go and do something nice for yourself. DH can enjoy parenting her.

I’d be telling dh that whether or not I went depended on him promising to back me up. And if he didn’t I’d leave him to it mid holiday and go home. If you do go, build in some you time regardless.

Also going forward refuse to engage with her when she’s being awful.
Grey rock “we’ll talk about this when you are calm and can have a civil conversation” and walk away. That will enrage her more to begin with, but will teach her that you aren’t willing to be her emotional punchbag. Always follow up later on with a concerned checking in with her, to show you care even if you won’t engage when she’s being unreasonable.

I bloody hate this sentiment, “if it was my child, blah blah”. Well, maybe your child is too scared to show their true feelings, or of upsetting you etc. We hurt those we love the most. What’s the OP to do? Ground her dd? Punish her? I can tell you now that that will end badly.

What the OP needs is her “d”h on her side. Dd is probably nicer to him as she’s not as close to him.

Kids behave this way for all sorts of reasons; they’re unhappy and taking out on mum (that’s what I got with my 15yo dd), they’re not being allowed to grow into the person they are and/or because THEY ARE A TEENAGER. It’s what they do.

Yes, I had this but my dh was 100% in my corner (but did call me out on stuff if necessary) and it was hell. Now, 12 years on we have a wonderful relationship with her and she understood that my pushing back was because I wanted to keep her safe (she wanted to be out at all times due to the horrible company she was keeping). She also
has better friends these days.

I was also horrible to my mum, but never swore as I was too scared. She, and my dad, had very old-fashioned views of what a girl should be like and didn’t like goth, beer drinking me. Dad still says “you were a nightmare”. Well it takes two to argue and who likes to be told they can’t eat cake “because they’ll get fat, and boys don’t like fat girls”. Cue eating disorder.

Aware I may be contradicting myself but me as dd and my own dd were two very different situations.

I hear you OP. I am in the same position and its a nightmare.Take this morning, right now for example
me; come on sweetheart wake up we need to go in 1 hr..come have a drink before you start getting ready..
her; ok i am up
me cajolling her for a pleasant start to the day ok thats great.Its a bit chilly and rainy today
her ok
me; come on lovely 20 mins you are going to be late for your day out
her nothing
me if you arent ready by 10 i will have to ring and cancel your day
her nothing gone back to sleep
me sat here fuming like a lemon...

I am so sick of it I am not going back upstairs again ..Sod her She can miss her day out with her friends ..she is going to have to learn. I have been up and ready to leave for HER on time..what are you supposed to do?
You look after you and thats about the best advice I can offer cos I don;t know either xx

Couldn’t have said it better myself, the only thing that worked with my son was to ignore him, but it was extremely difficult to do.

Lovely, blaming the OP.

Teenagers are full of raging hormones, their brains are rearranging themselves, they can't identify emotions correctly on other people,(See anger instead of fear for example) are still nowhere near mature with about 10 years to go. A lot of them can be really tricky and say some vile things, and are old enough to know exactly what will hurt. They think they know best and can not always see danger and thus there can be a lot of risky behaviour. It does improve, but it can be awful going through it with them.

If you don’t go unfortunately she has won and will know this, taken from experience you can’t let her do this to you, she will grow up but I’m sorry to be truthful you have a long road ahead of you.

That’s because their not at home and in different company, behind closed doors they act very different, my son between the ages of 14-17 I don’t know how I coped, he was awful to me, but now he’s 24 and lovely like a different person. He was always lovely to other people but never really to me.

This. It's reasonable to say that you both would benefit from some space from each other. Also fine for DD and DH to have a nice week with each other. That's important.

Would be good if DH were open to talking to DD about what's going on with her and you (if it comes up, if he has enough sensitivity to do it well).

And would recommend how to talk so kids will listen / and listen so kids will talk. One thing I had to learn and relearn was listening and validating what DD was telling me (even when it was hard because her interpretation was not the same as mine). Having someone really hear what you are saying is very validating, but is something that is very hard for a parent to do sometimes (because you need to be able to sidestep some of the family system issues to do so).

I'm sorry OP, but she sounds pretty vile to me. If my daughter spoke to me like that I'd be furious and she would know it.

I could be completely wrong because I don't think there's nearly enough context in your post and examples of what she has said to you, but I'm guessing you're more of a "gentle parent". I have friends who are, and their children walk all over them and treat them like shit.

This resonates with me so much, you’ve put into words exactly how I feel. The only difference was it was my father and not my mother who was the ‘problem’ parent. Equally my mother sat and watched it go on. Being a ‘vile’ teenager was the only way I could try to stand up to him. But that meant according to him i was a pain in the ass and ruined things by being difficult, a view my sibling fully believed for years until he moved away and had his own family and can now see our father for who he really is.

Firstly, have a huge hug 🫂. I've got 15 year old twin girls & can resonate with your situation. They are at a difficult stage & blaming us for their bad moods means they feel comfortable & trust us to be their safe space. It's hard being sworn at & put down, but they are going through a really turbulent time in terms of hormonal changes & this is normal.

What you should have said 'hmmimnotsurewhy' is that not all teens are vile pieces of shit in front of others! I believe that the vast majority can be vile to their parents at times, but they won't risk other people telling them what vile pieces of shit they are, so they do tend to behave better in front of other people.

I remember some of the things my DD said to me as a teen would have resulted in complete strangers telling her how absolutely vile she was, had she done it in public, but they only tend to do it at home, because they're testing you, in the same way that young children do.

I bet if you asked your friend, she would tell you that they're not always as well mannered, and respectful as they were in front of you!

I understand why you feel fed up but I don't think it's fair for you to be the one to miss the holiday. I wonder if it might be helpful, if you all go, for your husband to actually see what she's doing. If he says things like "I wasn't there" (he should back you up anyway) what happens if he is there? And if she is horrible to you, you can go and do your own thing on the holiday and he might get a better understanding of why you're feeling frustrated. Or go on your own holiday? Or leave the two of them at home?

"He wants to talk about it" I know you don't feel like it but I think it could be really useful for you @Theteenandme

Proposing a united front and how you need him to support you when your daughter is making things difficult, may make things easier?

Could he agree to stepping up?

@sequin2000 should have attributed the source of this letter

I was a ‘difficult’ teenager and I’m afraid while very poignant, that monologue doesn’t resonate with me@sequin2000

I actively disliked my mother and hated her presence. She was authoritarian and didn’t know me at all. She was never interested in the person I was becoming. Everything was about her. If my interests didn’t align with her worldview she’d dismiss or belittle them. She never allowed me freedom or supported my interests. For example, even dinners were her way, I had no agency to cook my own or have different meal times etc. She was fine when we played her game, but any dissent was met with vicious 70s parenting discipline. My dad stood by and let it play out.

So from an early age I built a defensive wall and as a teenager being vile to her was my only power. To this day, we see each other daily (as she’s elderly and needs care) but she’ll never really have my heart.

By contrast I’ve let my children be who they are and we’ve built our lives around supporting that. We had teenage pushback of course, but once they went to secondary school we pretty much treated them like adults. They could have their adult freedoms as long as they showed adult responsibilty. We trusted each other and it worked. At one point my dd casually commented that we were ‘more like housemates than a family’ which hurt me at first but she meant it as a compliment, as that’s the domestic set up that teenagers prefer.

I don’t like this idea that daughters are more challenging than sons. Maybe the world is more painful and less tolerant of the issues girls face, and that’s reflected in their behaviour.

@sequin2000 I totally don't understand what you just posted

Fortunately, I'm not a parent. I obviously was a teenager. I don't know if this is better or worse, but I was the kind of teenager who was quite good at sneaking out and stuff. But picking fights for no reason is not part of my personality. I do think my dad had a tendency to want to have an argument for no reason sometimes but as a family, we managed to get him out of that habit. I don't really know where he got it from. Maybe because he grew up in a big family. Maybe it was a way of getting attention.

But it pissed me right off when I was a kid and it obviously pissed my mother off as well. So by the time I was a teenager, there were two of us to say "grow up" and he kind of had to!

so yeah, what's this all about? Rebellion isn't compulsory. But even if it was, surely there's a way to do it that doesn't involve just being downright nasty and irrational. This kid could join the army in less than two years. And apparently might get the vote.

Could you join them for part of the holiday?

Sometimes family holidays just don't work well with teens.

What would you all do together?

Bloody hell. This is AMAZING 👏
made me tear up a bit actually 🤗

My dear, I'm afraid that you are the closest person to her, ergo......
This phase WILL pass, I promise!!
Big deep breath and calmness from you.
That's all you can do.
If daddy wants to be her best friend on holiday, let him, take some time to yourself and enjoy 😎

I’m sure everyone else has lots of insightful and intelligent suggestions, based on their life experience, and also know of ways to deal with this type of situation.
My reaction to this is- either let them go without you or you go without them. No matter what shit is going on with you and your daughter, you need a break and some time to yourself. It doesn’t matter if your partner/husband normally steps up or not. Right now he just has to. Fact.
Right now you do you. They will all survive either way. Parenting is brutal at times. Take a moment, you’re doing great.

FYI, I’m looking at my 8 year old and thinking I can’t wait until you have your owns kids 😂