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Was the ‘race card’ pulled??

489 replies

Glittercloud17 · 01/08/2025 20:14

So just got back from vacation. At the airport, my daughter and I were queuing for passport control when a girl/teen pushed past in front of us. 5 seconds later I heard a lady say to me “excuse me, we just want to join our niece” pointing to the girl who’d pushed in. Without focusing too much attention on her or the family, but seeing an additional 3 people (another teen and two women) I said “sorry, but that girl just shoved in, so maybe it’s better she joins you instead” (meaning the 1 girl who’d pushed in should join her family behind my daughter and I, and not the whole family move in front of my daughter and I.

The lady said “oh, I don’t think she pushed in, darling” in a clearly sarcastic tone, but I didn’t reply as the girl/teen then walked back to join her aunt behind us.

Then I heard the woman say to the girl “you know exactly why she thinks she needs to be in front of us, this is another example”. At this stage I assume she meant I felt entitled to say this because they were a family of colour! So instead of pulling up the teen for pushing past us, the adult put the responsibility of this situation on me, insinuating I was bullying them for racially motivated reasons!!

It hadn’t even crossed my mind that they were black/white/asian whatever family! Only that a person had pushed past my daughter and I and the family felt they then had a right to go in front.

Comments continued among the adults in the family to the teens around how this was another example why the teenagers had to be more assertive “in this world” and that I, “the lady” was in the wrong.

I didn’t react, or say anything as I didn’t want to escalate something that clearly wasn’t there, and continued to look in front (not in their direction) or be accused of anything especially in an airport with a flight to catch! Later after passport control, I was standing talking to my daughter when the other adult (who I hadn’t looked at previously) violently pushed into my back as they walked past. I was very shocked by this (again I brushed this off).

People who have genuinely experienced racism - was I unreasonable, and were they justified to jump to this conclusion? I understand there’s a long, complex history around race, but I am not aware, at least on a conscious level, of discriminating against anyone like this??

OP posts:
Tandora · 03/08/2025 19:23

RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 18:07

I had to go through significant stress and processes in my first year of a career as a result of that lad's accusation. Had my head of chairman of governors been of a different mind, which many are, it would have been upheld..at the time the policy was "perceived racism = racism" so frankly I was very bloody lucky. I know several colleagues in various schools over the years who have been less so. It was a total non issue of a standard classroom interaction until he chose to try and use his colour to gain an advantage. In that particular instance it failed but that doesn't mean it wasn't a prime example of what we've been discussing.

I’m not trying to minimise impact on you and I’m really sorry you went through that, but it sounds like the reality is the false accusation didn’t incur any particular benefit to the child- it just caused you a lot of pain stress . X

UmpteenthNC · 03/08/2025 19:05

Glittercloud17 · 03/08/2025 18:23

Ignoring micro aggression is exactly the only path I felt I could take at the time. Had the situation not be emotionally charged instantly, perhaps there would have been room to have a discussion (which I contemplated in my head at the time), but it was clear from my side that the aunt was pissed, and assumption were made (before my assumptions) about why I had challenged the teen. They spoke loudly, on purpose, soothing towards the teen (you’ve done nothing wrong), angry words about me, at length to ensure I was listening, and me standing in a busy compact queue with my young child (and alone!!!) opening a conversation about their assumptions wasn’t the time or place to do it. I let it go, and didn’t think about it again till the other person PUSHED ME in my back. Like WTAF?! A big unnecessary step up in the situation and confirmation that I was right to ignore them and assume their aggression was based on my race/their unjustified opinion that I had been racist.

Had I seen signs that the lady was calm, confused then I would have 100% been open to explaining. I am generally a ‘chat to strangers’ person, but a conflict avoider (especially when with my child) and this was definitely a situation where the conflict would have escalated because the pushing was disproportionate response.

if they were assuming I was “posh” as some have suggested, then I find this impossible too. My back had been turned the whole time and we barely made eye contact so I find that implausible. however, as literally the only thing they could have judged me on was my ethnicity, and thus jumping to a conclusion that I was racially motivated then THAT can also be described as an act of discrimination against me. So perhaps they were also using unconscious bias.

We’re all human. But to not acknowledge unconscious bias doesn’t existence within the ethnic minorities is self righteous BS.

But nobody has said unconscious bias doesn’t exist within ethnic minorities. In fact, all everyone has said is that all people, regardless of ethnicity, have biases. I gave a couple of examples of alternative explanations to race for why the family said what you heard and also admitted that it could also have been race, but the fact is that you’ll never know because it was just a guess on your part. You can’t know what was in someone else’s mind unless they actually tell you, and since you judged that the situation was not appropriate to engage in conversation, I don’t think it does much good to be hung up on the perceived motives when you’re never going to get an answer.

I also really don’t understand why you would assume that their aggression was based on race. Are you suggesting that the woman’s act of physical aggression when she pushed past you made you think that she was racially motivated because she pushed past you?

The only facts I can ascertain from your recounting of the incident is that the family were aggressive to you because you stood up for yourself when they tried to supplant your place in the queue. What you have described is bullying behaviour, and bullies don’t need a reason to try and bully other people - although they may sometimes find an excuse. From what you described, you had something they wanted (a place ahead in the queue), you didn’t give it to them, and they got angry. You’re assuming that their attempted bullying of you is based on the colour of your/their skin, but that’s an assumption that cannot be proven. And in my opinion, attempting to prove it only runs the risk of falling into racial stereotypes.

Glittercloud17 · 03/08/2025 18:23

UmpteenthNC · 03/08/2025 08:44

Nobody can make you feel guilty unless you choose to feel guilty. Generally, it’s people’s own consciences that make them feel guilty, unless they have underlying psychological problems. I cited an example where someone was directly accused of being racist and actually responded politely and respectfully to challenge the accusation, which led to a resolution of the conflict and harmony between the two people.

The grown up thing to do is to engage and ‘use your voice’ to use a mumsnet term, rather than stew internally and build up resentment that would probably compound prejudice further. And if you don’t want to do that, then let it go. That’s what people who experience micro aggressions have to do all the time. And anybody can experience a micro aggressions depending on the context.

As @Tandora said, everybody is capable of bias, because we are all human and that is just how our brains work. We don’t have the right to control how others perceive us. There will be many people who have false perceptions of us, some in the negative and some in the positive. But if we want to be productive, we can try engaging with them rationally, or let things go if we think it’s not worth it.

This is what I am doing with you now. You have accused me of guilt tripping, which is incorrect - I am making an intellectual argument and not an emotional one. You’ve made so many assumptions in your post - about politics, about race - your assumptions and assertions only express your own beliefs but say nothing about mine.

Nobody is justifying the poor behaviour the OP experienced, we are simply answering her question of whether the race card was pulled. Even the OP has accepted that she could have framed the question better.

Ignoring micro aggression is exactly the only path I felt I could take at the time. Had the situation not be emotionally charged instantly, perhaps there would have been room to have a discussion (which I contemplated in my head at the time), but it was clear from my side that the aunt was pissed, and assumption were made (before my assumptions) about why I had challenged the teen. They spoke loudly, on purpose, soothing towards the teen (you’ve done nothing wrong), angry words about me, at length to ensure I was listening, and me standing in a busy compact queue with my young child (and alone!!!) opening a conversation about their assumptions wasn’t the time or place to do it. I let it go, and didn’t think about it again till the other person PUSHED ME in my back. Like WTAF?! A big unnecessary step up in the situation and confirmation that I was right to ignore them and assume their aggression was based on my race/their unjustified opinion that I had been racist.

Had I seen signs that the lady was calm, confused then I would have 100% been open to explaining. I am generally a ‘chat to strangers’ person, but a conflict avoider (especially when with my child) and this was definitely a situation where the conflict would have escalated because the pushing was disproportionate response.

if they were assuming I was “posh” as some have suggested, then I find this impossible too. My back had been turned the whole time and we barely made eye contact so I find that implausible. however, as literally the only thing they could have judged me on was my ethnicity, and thus jumping to a conclusion that I was racially motivated then THAT can also be described as an act of discrimination against me. So perhaps they were also using unconscious bias.

We’re all human. But to not acknowledge unconscious bias doesn’t existence within the ethnic minorities is self righteous BS.

OP posts:
RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 18:07

Tandora · 03/08/2025 17:27

But his complaint wasn’t held!!!! That’s the whole point

I had to go through significant stress and processes in my first year of a career as a result of that lad's accusation. Had my head of chairman of governors been of a different mind, which many are, it would have been upheld..at the time the policy was "perceived racism = racism" so frankly I was very bloody lucky. I know several colleagues in various schools over the years who have been less so. It was a total non issue of a standard classroom interaction until he chose to try and use his colour to gain an advantage. In that particular instance it failed but that doesn't mean it wasn't a prime example of what we've been discussing.

Lavenderflower · 03/08/2025 17:34

Sparklybutold · 03/08/2025 17:01

Ive noticed something over the years that I find really difficult to talk about openly, but I think it needs saying. I’ve seen situations where someone’s poor behaviour gets called out—things like being rude, unprofessional, or just not pulling their weight—and instead of taking responsibility, they play the race card. Suddenly it’s not about their behaviour, it’s about discrimination, and people get scared to say anything in case they’re labelled racist.
I’ve watched colleagues tiptoe around non-white staff, afraid to give honest feedback or hold them to the same standards, just in case it’s taken the wrong way. And I’ve seen some people use that fear to their advantage, staying unaccountable while others bend over backwards not to offend.
One moment that really stuck with me was when a non-white colleague told another that she was “betraying her culture” by not joining a particular group. It felt manipulative and totally inappropriate in a professional setting.
I’m all for celebrating cultural differences—they make workplaces richer and more interesting—but there are times when cultural norms clash with professional expectations. And when that happens, it should be okay to talk about it without being accused of having “white privilege” or worse.
It’s a tricky subject, and I know it’s uncomfortable, but I don’t think silence helps anyone. Accountability should apply to everyone, regardless of background.

What do mean by cultural norms clashing with workplace expectation? Can you give an example.

Tandora · 03/08/2025 17:27

RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 17:21

@Tandora I know "cool points" don't mean much to us but when you're 15? Very different. And far more important is the second point, that had his complaint held, he and possibly other non white pupils would have seen they were untouchable. That is both a HUGE advantage and an untenable position for a school management. Go me for standing up to it but it could have gone very differently. If you really want to invite posters to contribute other examples Im sure we could do that..workplace ones abound with more serious "advantages" and losses on the flip side. But you'll dismiss all of them no doubt so there's no point. I do think we've reached an impasse here since you're never going to concede that SOME people will do this quite deliberately and I won't concede that it never happens and isn't an issue.

But his complaint wasn’t held!!!! That’s the whole point

RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 17:21

@Tandora I know "cool points" don't mean much to us but when you're 15? Very different. And far more important is the second point, that had his complaint held, he and possibly other non white pupils would have seen they were untouchable. That is both a HUGE advantage and an untenable position for a school management. Go me for standing up to it but it could have gone very differently. If you really want to invite posters to contribute other examples Im sure we could do that..workplace ones abound with more serious "advantages" and losses on the flip side. But you'll dismiss all of them no doubt so there's no point. I do think we've reached an impasse here since you're never going to concede that SOME people will do this quite deliberately and I won't concede that it never happens and isn't an issue.

Sparklybutold · 03/08/2025 17:01

Ive noticed something over the years that I find really difficult to talk about openly, but I think it needs saying. I’ve seen situations where someone’s poor behaviour gets called out—things like being rude, unprofessional, or just not pulling their weight—and instead of taking responsibility, they play the race card. Suddenly it’s not about their behaviour, it’s about discrimination, and people get scared to say anything in case they’re labelled racist.
I’ve watched colleagues tiptoe around non-white staff, afraid to give honest feedback or hold them to the same standards, just in case it’s taken the wrong way. And I’ve seen some people use that fear to their advantage, staying unaccountable while others bend over backwards not to offend.
One moment that really stuck with me was when a non-white colleague told another that she was “betraying her culture” by not joining a particular group. It felt manipulative and totally inappropriate in a professional setting.
I’m all for celebrating cultural differences—they make workplaces richer and more interesting—but there are times when cultural norms clash with professional expectations. And when that happens, it should be okay to talk about it without being accused of having “white privilege” or worse.
It’s a tricky subject, and I know it’s uncomfortable, but I don’t think silence helps anyone. Accountability should apply to everyone, regardless of background.

Allergictoironing · 03/08/2025 16:35

What risk is there?

Allergictoironing · 03/08/2025 16:34

This reply has been deleted

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Tandora · 03/08/2025 16:17

Allergictoironing · 03/08/2025 16:04

It was the attempt at gaining the advantage. If @RhaenysRocks hadn't been on the ball and got her union involved it may well have gone his way, and I'm pretty sure that it has gone that way in other very similar situations.

Organisations can be risk averse, and if there could be even any question of a complaint going to court or a tribunal they will give way to save money and reduce the chance of bad publicity. I have seen cases of this in my current job, but the information is highly confidential so obviously I'm not going to say anything about the circumstances on a public forum!

People will try it on, especially if there's no down side to themselves as there wasn't in RhaenysRocks case. Whether it's accusations of racism, sexism, any other "ism", bias of any kind, if there's no risk then why not try for the reward?

Because the reality is that there’s tonnes of risk and little if anything to be gained in reward. Because that’s how racism works. But I don’t think you are ever going to get it.

Allergictoironing · 03/08/2025 16:04

It was the attempt at gaining the advantage. If @RhaenysRocks hadn't been on the ball and got her union involved it may well have gone his way, and I'm pretty sure that it has gone that way in other very similar situations.

Organisations can be risk averse, and if there could be even any question of a complaint going to court or a tribunal they will give way to save money and reduce the chance of bad publicity. I have seen cases of this in my current job, but the information is highly confidential so obviously I'm not going to say anything about the circumstances on a public forum!

People will try it on, especially if there's no down side to themselves as there wasn't in RhaenysRocks case. Whether it's accusations of racism, sexism, any other "ism", bias of any kind, if there's no risk then why not try for the reward?

Tandora · 03/08/2025 15:52

RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 15:44

Notoriety, cool points. And, had I not gone through a stressful and scary process, very early in my career, as I said, he'd have been untouchable for his remaining time. You really are desperate to defend this but im not having it. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Notoriety, cool points

lol ok.

And, had I not..

yes, would’a could’a should’a. But you did and therefore he didn’t.

im not trying to defend that kid- i know nothing about him. just trying to explain that there is really no such thing as “the race card” that confers special advantages on racialised minority people.

So so far on this thread we have one kid who allegedly got “cool points” and one guy who allegedly stayed in his job for a while before he got fired and lost his tribunal.

RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 15:44

Notoriety, cool points. And, had I not gone through a stressful and scary process, very early in my career, as I said, he'd have been untouchable for his remaining time. You really are desperate to defend this but im not having it. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Tandora · 03/08/2025 14:43

RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 14:33

Oh had I not fought it, it would have "benefitted" him to know I had it recorded and do you really think I or any other teacher would have risked reprimanding him again? Come on, you are reaching now.

But what benefit did the boy actually receive ?

RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 14:33

Oh had I not fought it, it would have "benefitted" him to know I had it recorded and do you really think I or any other teacher would have risked reprimanding him again? Come on, you are reaching now.

Tandora · 03/08/2025 14:03

Allergictoironing · 03/08/2025 13:55

The mess I had to clear up when I took over his job took me quite a while, on top of keeping my original job and the new one running to a decent standard. I KNOW he was poor at his job, as a barely adequate admin should have been able to carry out that role well in under a day a week rather than failing in 5 days. The boss of the other team came to me apologising for the mess and said he had tried via all methods open to him to either get the job done adequately by the incumbent or have them replaced, and that racial prejudice was cited by the admin every time. This boss was of a different racial group than the admin, but not white British.

He was transferred to a different area but was finally dismissed in his next role, and took the department to tribunal which he lost. I know of a similar situation but as that was third hand and was of no impact on me I haven't even mentioned it; same result in that case of a lost tribunal claim.

Possibly the most impactful case mentioned above is when the police and other authorities failed to act in Rotherham due to the fear of being labelled racist. These gangs continued for many years due to being unchallengeable for this very reason, destroying the lives of young girls in the process.

The attempted gain in @RhaenysRocks case was to not be moved to where he would be under the eye of the teacher so no longer able to muck about.

But there are also cases when racism has been claimed not as an advantage for the accuser, but as a way of harming the person they have accused. We all know and understand that in certain jobs like a social worker or a teacher, an upheld accusation of racism will get them dismissed and struck off any registers and thereby unemployable in their field.

To a minor degree, another example is if someone doesn't get the results they want through one social worker they will try whatever method they think will work to be allocated to another who they hope will get the results they want. Of course in these cases most of the time what the complainant wants isn't in the power of the social worker e.g. getting council housing immediately when there's already a large queue of more needy cases (this is one I have seen time and time again).

So… your colleague lost his job and then his tribunal claim. I see.

The Rotherham case was way more complex than saying race was the reason they go away with it.

@RhaenysRocks case resulted in no benefit.

the other examples you give are theoretical.

Allergictoironing · 03/08/2025 13:55

The mess I had to clear up when I took over his job took me quite a while, on top of keeping my original job and the new one running to a decent standard. I KNOW he was poor at his job, as a barely adequate admin should have been able to carry out that role well in under a day a week rather than failing in 5 days. The boss of the other team came to me apologising for the mess and said he had tried via all methods open to him to either get the job done adequately by the incumbent or have them replaced, and that racial prejudice was cited by the admin every time. This boss was of a different racial group than the admin, but not white British.

He was transferred to a different area but was finally dismissed in his next role, and took the department to tribunal which he lost. I know of a similar situation but as that was third hand and was of no impact on me I haven't even mentioned it; same result in that case of a lost tribunal claim.

Possibly the most impactful case mentioned above is when the police and other authorities failed to act in Rotherham due to the fear of being labelled racist. These gangs continued for many years due to being unchallengeable for this very reason, destroying the lives of young girls in the process.

The attempted gain in @RhaenysRocks case was to not be moved to where he would be under the eye of the teacher so no longer able to muck about.

But there are also cases when racism has been claimed not as an advantage for the accuser, but as a way of harming the person they have accused. We all know and understand that in certain jobs like a social worker or a teacher, an upheld accusation of racism will get them dismissed and struck off any registers and thereby unemployable in their field.

To a minor degree, another example is if someone doesn't get the results they want through one social worker they will try whatever method they think will work to be allocated to another who they hope will get the results they want. Of course in these cases most of the time what the complainant wants isn't in the power of the social worker e.g. getting council housing immediately when there's already a large queue of more needy cases (this is one I have seen time and time again).

Tandora · 03/08/2025 12:55

RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 12:51

Bit you've been given several examples on this thread of exactly that. It's not fantasy.

The only example where a real advantage was claimed was someone’s third hand opinion/ perception that someone else was crap at their job but able to keep it by “playing the race card”.

RhaenysRocks · 03/08/2025 12:51

Tandora · 03/08/2025 12:30

I never denied that was possible, I just explained that is rarely if ever any meaningful advantage to be gained, which is why the “race card” is a fantasy/ projection..

Also please read @Lavenderflower post.

Bit you've been given several examples on this thread of exactly that. It's not fantasy.

GoodPudding · 03/08/2025 12:37

Seymour5 · 03/08/2025 09:29

I agree. The grooming gangs in Rotherham etc felt empowered to continue because they were aware that the police and other authorities were more concerned about being labelled racist than bringing large numbers of ethnic Asian men to book for their crimes.

I don't dispute that we all make unconscious judgements, but neither am I naive enough not to also know that there are those who use any means to behave how they wish.

That’s an excellent example of what I’m talking about, thank you.

Tandora · 03/08/2025 12:30

Dramatic · 03/08/2025 12:26

The thing you're denying is that some people DELIBERATELY do it to gain an advantage in that specific situation.

I never denied that was possible, I just explained that is rarely if ever any meaningful advantage to be gained, which is why the “race card” is a fantasy/ projection..

Also please read @Lavenderflower post.

Dramatic · 03/08/2025 12:26

Tandora · 03/08/2025 11:13

that perhaps my classroom incident was not in fact "crying wolf" but something more sinister on my part. (Ie a racially motivated reprimand).

I said that you should reflect on the ways in which it is possible that unconscious racial bias may have played some role in influencing your behaviour. This is not personal to you- this is something that affects all of us and we all have a duty to reflect on.

She has also acknowledged that some people might MISTAKENLY see racism where none exists but has stopped short of acknowledging,( I think anyway, it been a long thread) that some will DELIBERATELY do this.

This is false. please read my posts.

Edited

The thing you're denying is that some people DELIBERATELY do it to gain an advantage in that specific situation.

Lavenderflower · 03/08/2025 12:03

It is true that, in some instances, individuals may interpret certain interactions or treatment as racially motivated when other factors may be at play. However, it is overly simplistic and dismissive to characterise this as playing the race card. Such interpretations often arise within a broader context of lived experience, where repeated exposure to discrimination, microaggressions, and systemic inequality shapes how individuals perceive and respond to ambiguous or negative encounters. From a sociological and psychological perspective, the attribution of certain behaviours to racism should be understood as part of a complex interplay between personal history, social context, and structural power dynamics. I think can be applied to all ism's including sex, gender, disability, classism etc

Lavenderflower · 03/08/2025 11:45

UmpteenthNC · 03/08/2025 07:24

It’s striking how much racism there is on mumsnet but there seems to be a general reduction of empathy on the site lately - perhaps a reflection of how toxic online discourse has become.

I don’t think OP was unreasonable to tell the girl there was a queue but coming online to accuse the family of ‘playing the race card’ crosses into unreasonable territory. Especially as, from your own account, you were exhibiting racial prejudice, since they never mentioned race. It was your own assumption that they were talking about your race, and you yourself said you assumed this because of the colour of their skin. Which undermines the point you made about not noticing people’s races - you clearly do, and in this case it was the first explanation you jumped to, in order to explain their bad behaviour. That is racist. As people have said, anybody of any race can behave poorly. The notion of ‘playing the race card’ is offensive - other posters have explained why so I won’t go into it - you can just use the factual description of ‘I suspect this person is falsely accusing me of racism’ rather than the loaded term (in your case, you suspected, because they never actually accused you of racism).

The irony is that if OPs suspicion is correct and the family’s subsequent aggressive behaviour towards OP was racially motivated, then that would be the kind of racially charged micro-aggression that black people often have to deal with and find themselves facing invalidation when they try to articulate why they think they’ve faced aggressive behaviour due to their race when their race has never been mentioned. Such invalidation happens on this site all the time.

However, I can think of other explanations that are not race. It could be social class, as others have said. It could even be nationality - perceived ‘westerner’ (which is not necessarily racial) versus local to the region the airport was in, for example. I had an airport experience myself where the queuing etiquette was obviously different for people from different parts of the world, but the loud grumbling of people not respecting the queue was coming mainly from UK residents, which is where the flight was going. In the case the fault was on the airline for not making any queuing announcement and leaving the queue to form organically so that everyone was making up their own rules, and new people who joined had to guess where the queue actually was, thus causing more confusion and frustration for a flight that had already been delayed.

The one thing you could have done that would have put paid to this racial assumption would have been to challenge the family if you thought they were implying racism on you. You could have asked them directly since you were essentially eavesdropping on their conversation. I witnessed this happen once (on a plane as it happens) - between a (black) woman and a (white) man sitting next to each other who had some conflict over an arm rest. After some tense (non verbal) back and forth over who was monopolising the arm rest with each one pushing the other’s arm away, the black woman accused the white man of being racist, the white man challenged her on why she said this, they had a conversation and this resulted in them smoothing over their differences and they learnt things about each other and were friends by the end of the flight. Exposure to other people is one of the reasons travel expands the mind if we can learn to respectfully engage with people, especially in times of conflict!

I think you articulated this well.