To think most men wouldn’t survive a year living the life of an average woman?

again, we are also free to judge and think that these women are letting the side down!

yes, you are free to judge, but what "side"? you are the one "letting the side down" by pretending you should have a say on how women live their life.

Are you so insecure you need other women to do the same as you? Why does it make you so uncomfortable that someone has another lifestyle? How can it possibly affect you?

People don't need a paycheck to use their social skills, and access training and education, improve their intelligence and so on, but if your identity is so linked with your job, it's your choice. Is it what what makes you so unhappy: to see people just as educated, interesting, confident, busy and active but who couldn't care less about a job title?

You sound interested in what being a ‘diligent housewife’ entails. Basically the following (which are positive!);

• Putting your children and husband first in any decision you make, as does your DH. Asking yourself: Who does this really benefit? Your own family comes first, always, every time.
• Not bad mouthing your DH and DCs at any given opportunity. Praising and celebrating their qualities and achievements.
• Ensuring your home runs efficiently. Really getting to know the needs of your individual home and garden. I’m all about efficiency- I know exactly how often each cleaning/maintenance task needs doing. This actually saves you a load of time in the long run.
• Diligently volunteering whatever time you can at your DCs schools, for counselling style charities, actively running errands for extended family members, neighbours and other parents. Ideally living close to both sides of the family. Studying things that interest you.
• Hosting often. Warmly welcoming family and friends, anticipating and thoughtfully meeting their needs. I delight in hosting vegetarians, vegans, nut allergy sufferers, friends who have different cultural dietary needs, etc. I will joyfully adapt my menus and remember their preferences.
• Freeing up evenings and weekends for date nights and adventurous days out (who said a housewife doesn’t like adventures or travelling the world? Many travel more extensively than the average person with their DHs on international business, particularly those without children yet).
• Prioritising hobbies and leisure activities. Not treating these as an after thought.
• Never leaving the house in PJs!!!

I don't sit at my kitchen table imagining I'm running the world, I'm actually out there doing it.
and yet.. here you are on MN with some home makers. Funny isn't it 😂

Just because we ended up in the same place at the end of the day, it doesn't remotely mean our days or the impact they had on wider society were comparable 😂 there are people from all walks of life here, why do you think the use of Mumsnet is relevant to peoples lifestyles?

Is your world so black and white? Either you are at work, or you are cleaning? You can't find anything fulfilling to do anywhere? Odd.
It is well known that work improves social skills, intelligence, self esteem and confidence and opens up opportunities through training and education. That's why it is so different to return after a long break and people who fall out of work often struggle to get back into it if they're out for a few years. I'm also very proud of equestrian achievements and enjoyed my travelling, but I wouldn't be able to pay for those without my career unless I found a cash machine rich husband to pay for it all for me.

As for keep banging on about cleaning the kitchen, it's miss Nigel that has waxed lyrical about endless domestic duties and child rearing activities like there's nothing better for women to do. I am well aware there are far more 🤔 things in life than "diligent housewifery". Of course we are free to choose, but we are also free to judge and think that these women are letting the side down! Especially when these are types of women banging on about how men could never cope with it all. Cope with what? A bit of housework and all of the self imposed wifey standards they have made up for themselves?

I agree with this.

Equality doesn't mean everyone doing the same thing, living their lives the same way as everybody else and all having successful careers and earning pots of money.

Equality is being able to choose. If someone doesn't want kids or a partner and wants to live a single life then that's fine. At the other end of the scale, if someone wants to be a SAHP and their partner is happy to accommodate that, then that's fine too.

If someone wants a successful career earning pots of money with a big pension, living in a luxurious home, then good for them. If that's what they want to do then go and do it.

If someone wants to be be an artist, live in a converted donkey barn and know they will probably never make lots of money, but it makes them happy, then go and do it.

One person's equality doesn't necessarily look like someone else's.

Amazing 😂

But they wouldn’t do it. We put the stress on ourselves. My husband does his side of the family, gifts and cards - no expectation on my. Because that’s how we roll. He collects the kids and drops them off and he steps up. My children have been raised the same. Why do we feel ‘a woman’s load is huge?’

This.... DH cooks the christmas lunch in our house.

I ignore stupid appearance expectations. I don't wear makeup or heels etc, do not get my hair highlighted or my nails done. DH doesn't either....

All the men I know socially and in family would cope fine swapping. I don’t think I’d cope well in my DH’s shoes – he does an extraordinary amount.

Which men?

Careful, you'll give some of the regulars a fembolism if they read that. 🤣

No, they aren’t mistakes anyone above 14 that is prioritising the task would make. They are just mistakes coming from lack of care factor and engagement. Like I said, I’m not claiming my way is right. Maybe his way would lead to more independent and capable kids in the end? I’m assuming after a while of the embarrassment of having the wrong gear/coming in the wrong uniform/not submitting their homework etc that they would learn to do it themselves. I was certainly more capable of doing all that stuff at their ages.

I think some people have very difficult lives and I wonder how I would manage if I were in their position. You see threads on here where people are dealing with extremely challenging disabilities or MH issues or caring responsibilities.

However, for people without these additional challenges I don’t get how housework and raising a few kids is that challenging. It can be a bit full on at times but some people make out like it’s overwhelming. Talking about the emotional load and including things like making appointments and buying presents is a bit wet. Some women seem to make problems when they dont exist. I’m in my 60s and it never crossed my mind that I should be worrying about things like buying Xmas presents for my husbands family.

I obviously know sexism etc is alive and well but it’s hardly a ‘daily grind’ for me. I think some people need to just crack on with things and stop fussing. (Obviously I’m saying that for people who DONT have additional challenges)

I think some people have very difficult lives and I wonder how I would manage if I were in their position. You see threads on here where people are dealing with extremely challenging disabilities or MH issues or caring responsibilities.

However, for people without these additional challenges I don’t get how housework and raising a few kids is that challenging. It can be a bit full on at times but some people make out like it’s overwhelming. Talking about the emotional load and including things like making appointments and buying presents is a bit wet. Some women seem to make problems when they dont exist. I’m in my 60s and it never crossed my mind that I should be worrying about things like buying Xmas presents for my husbands family.

I obviously know sexism etc is alive and well but it’s hardly a ‘daily grind’ for me. I think some people need to just crack on with things and stop fussing. (Obviously I’m saying that for people who DONT have additional challenges)

Freedom from what? The First World War (which I’m assuming you mean since you mention the trenches) was about nations competing for power, not freedom. Men would have done more to demonstrate their intelligence by not starting it in the first place.

who's angry? You make me laugh
I did it for a while while on maternity leave and it's bloody boring and unfulfilling. I have an adventurous personality I hate being cooped up inside

You are the one who keep banging on about cleaning your kitchen. The rest of us manage to have a life.

Is your world so black and white? Either you are at work, or you are cleaning? You can't find anything fulfilling to do anywhere? Odd.

Either way, I didn't gain all this knowledge and skills to just not use them great, but ... who said you couldn't? That's the point, we are telling you that you have the CHOICE. Use that choice.

What we don't agree is that you have some say on how other people chose to spend their time. It has nothing to do with you.

I don't sit at my kitchen table imagining I'm running the world, I'm actually out there doing it.
and yet.. here you are on MN with some home makers. Funny isn't it 😂

Go on then, entertain me some more - on what planet was my intentionally flippant remark ‘misogynistic’? 😂😂😂

You do understand that ‘Good bot’ doesn’t mean the same as ‘I disagree with you’, right?! It was a reference to how your posting ‘style’ is coming off in places.

Me neither.

This is probably because you and I are "captured women" which is a term I learned on MN yesterday! 😂

It's the patriarchy, see? The kind feminist (way more evolved than I will ever be) explained it.

If we're not angry, we're thick.

the poster above, who admitted being unable to do anything or show any initiative on maternity leave, but who needs to have a boss to tell them what to do to feel superior.

You're deeply lacking in your comprehension skills dear. As I told you, I spent my maternity leave out with the horses and climbing mountains with my baby in the sling because I want her to see the big wide world and not be stuck at home all day. It's a crying shame to waste life being a diligent housewife whatever that means, cleaning a house and baking or whatever else takes 18 hours a day apparently.

I don't need a boss to tell me what to do, I am a scientist. I work in research. I need to actually research things and do science and use my brain to not be bored. Cleaning a kitchen is fucking boring. My work changes the world through innovation. I don't sit at my kitchen table imagining I'm running the world, I'm actually out there doing it. I didn't gain all this knowledge and skills to just not use them and clean a kitchen someone else paid for while organising his money for him and being deluded enough to call it freedom!

You're very angry for someone who claims not to be offended dear.

the dated views is pretending one person or one category can decide for the rest of us.

Its' more likely to be a twisted view like the poster above, who admitted being unable to do anything or show any initiative on maternity leave, but who needs to have a boss to tell them what to do to feel superior.

it's not going backward to have A CHOICE. It's backwards to try to take that choice away by pretending women are too stupid, too weak to decide for themselves - which is exactly what you are trying to do.
We don't need strong leaders to tell us what is the correct way to leave our life, thanks.

You are deeply misogynistic, and should have a deep think about that. The ‘robots’ in this current society are the ones pursuing money, career and power at any cost. Wise up!

Woman don't want one person to decide for them.

If I manage to be equal with any man in the workplace, it's not for letting someone like you tell me what I should or should not do 😂

You don't care about "equality", you want women to fit your views. Not gonna happen.

Good bot

Hmm unsure what you mean, but plenty of posters read the papers! And don’t use nurseries or schools.

I totally agree with you. It feels like people are focusing so much on what’s ‘hard’ for women these days that they forget the incredible resilience and strength we’ve inherited. I mean, look at history—women have always had to handle so much, and we’ve done it without the constant complaining that seems to be going around now. The whole "martyrdom" mentality is draining, and honestly, it doesn’t help anyone. Life can be tough for both men and women, but we don’t need to act like everything is a burden. Sometimes, it’s about taking a step back, not overcomplicating things, and just getting on with it.

I don’t understand why comparisons and "what ifs" between men and women still persist in 2025. Both have a rich history behind them, and neither is weak. Each possesses unique strengths, abilities, and skills. I’m optimistic about the advancements in AI and hope it evolves enough to resolve these discussions once and for all.

You’ve been here before, but without the Nigel thanking, and with slightly more religious elements.

I thought it earlier with domestic haven, but the murders in nurseries has sealed it.

You had this debate a few days ago, and have changed your name.

Nurseries are far from beneficial for under 2s. Check out the recent stats and high profile news cases on murders, abuse, scalding and far higher levels of reported incidences. Mothers need to start thinking for themselves- many are way too trusting with who actually matters most in their lives.