Civil Service Fast Stream

If by "screwed" you mean won't have the opportunity to do a 6 week internship that does not guarantee a job or a place in the Fast Track scheme, but still have all other application avenues to the civil service open to them, then yes. But that does seem a little dramatic.

London unis are becoming increasingly out of the pocket for middle income students and their families. Accommodation prices are hugely expensive and it’s becoming increasingly hard to get the cheapest. Getting weekend work that fits in round degrees is becoming increasingly harder and for more intense degrees having to work is a huge disadvantage. The ignoring of this and the we’re alright Jack by the wealthy alongside the government’s “let’s just focus on the poorest and screw the middle” stance is making things harder and harder for students from squeezed middle families to attend unis.

Yes I know lots of wealthy divorced couple who misuse divorce to access higher student loans.🙄

My white middle-class son got offers from both the Treasury and another London Fast Stream this year but has rejected them for another offer. Humanities grad with a 2i.

There is no way I would get in! Looking at the assessments he had to do, the stakeholder interviews etc were really quite tough. And the application, like all graduate jobs was very time/consuming with lots of tests. There were so many hoops to navigate that I think you have to be able to think on your feet, have good people skills and be quick-witted. Regardless of your background, being able to interview well seems to be what matters.

That will be my DD in 8 weeks. Currently cluttering up our fridge with similar.

Live it!! Maybe stick an article like ‘Oatly: the New Coke’ to the fridge and scare them witless!

With an inclination towards public service, why no go for something like social or Legal Aid work?

Yep, my DH did this. And yes that relies on parents living within greater London or surrounding areas, but many of these may be in social housing or bought many years ago when properties were cheaper so not necessarily especially well off

Oh I agree with you on that. But it’s your right to know. It helps form a more complete picture of the candidate. You might even judge them more harshly if they interview badly having been to an elite institution.

Surely he just has to apply?

The whole point of applying for any job/career is you will always face rejection.
You can't live his life for him and put obstacles there because of how you perceive something.
He also should have a Plan B in case he isn't accepted.

The announcement today is about work experience/interns. It's being done I assume because lots of young people get a leg up in certain careers because their parents either have connections of fund their non-paid internships.

That's different from your son applying for entry in the way you describe.

My CS department is full of young white poshos, cluttering up the communal fridges with their oat milk and quinoa.

A lot of middle class kids with middle income parents go to London universities. They take the student loan, get Saturday and holiday jobs and budget carefully. It’s perfectly possible.

Also, these are anecdotal, so not representative, and also some time ago but show there’s more support once you get in than there might seem to be before applying. A good university friend of mine got additional financial support because her father declared to the university that he disowned her. Not as a person, but financially. He said he left school at 16 and got a job, he saw no value in university education, so he wasn’t going to support her financially. My college was so appalled by his attitude and so impressed by his daughter that they stepped into the fray and supported her through her degree. Another friend was disowned after telling her parents she was a lesbian. They refused to let her come home during the holidays, so my college gave her a holiday job with accommodation for the remainder of her degree.

My youngest (white middle class women) has a fast stream place this year. Her stream has overall 2% success rate. I think there is an element of luck The two students who got overall year prize and diss prize in my DDs year didn't get a place. My DD thinks doing a placement year gave her an edge (but it didn't get her any exemptions from tests). Successful completion of the summer internship gets you a bye from the first set of tests. They do have spots on this even if you are not disadvantaged. My DD is not and got a place (took placement instead). I believe quite a lot of internship students get fast stream (again maybe 6 weeks experience gives you an advantage and the initial tests are the same).

Agree with others about plan Bs and Cs. Look at direct entry grad jobs or lower level jobs too (as backup). DDs placement boss was super smart and came from outside. Reached same level as fast streamers in less time.

What’s stopping him from applying for CS outside of fast stream?

Haven't worked in this field myself but know.people who have. My recommendations for your son would be:

Consider more than just the Fast Track. Friends have built successful careers by applying directly to a civil service job, and through a (non fast track) graduate trainee scheme (no idea if that exists anymore).

If you get to selection / interview stage, practise what is expected. My friend got an MoD job at the fourth time of getting to the interview stage, when she finally mastered the expected style they expected for answers. And I know 2 junior colleagues from my place of work who applied to the same civil service scheme - the very junior one was offered a grade higher than the more experienced one. There is no way he had the more knowledge/experience of the two but he had taken the interview prep very seriously and I think gave an amazing interview.

Be persistent, it's not unusual to be unsuccessful,.so it may be a case of reapplying the following year.

You’re hilarious.
A white middle class man “with the odds stacked against him” 😂😂
I hope he doesn’t share your view and recognises his privilege. Here’s to hoping the next generation are more self aware.

No one has mentioned AI yet.

I assume - but don’t know - that applications are initially screened by AI. So encourage your DS to do some research into what he needs to include.

My DS is in a similar boat & im advising him to look at more oblique routes to public service. Not that he listens to his mother!

I have interviewed Grads from many universities and I wouldn't limit my search to the elites - you have a higher opinion of them than they deserve. Being successful in the world of work is not about your ability to get 3 A*s. If only it were that easy!

Not really helpful for those that don’t live in the South East. 🙄

Well 49% of the uk population is men. And 82% is white. So that’s kind of an accurate representation of the population. To skew it otherwise is discrimination.

Of which those in the middle on lower loans would not be eligible for.

My fast streamer is a white man with a humanities degree, no idea of his class really but he is a truly excellent employee. Civil service internships being used to broaden representation in the civil service is not new... for example there are care leaver schemes, disability schemes and others. I don't see why you'd discourage him, the first stages of the process are done blind i believe ( e.g. psychometric testing). The fast stream tends to be very competitive though so it would be worth him applying to join through advertised roles as well.

What gets me is those on the lowest incomes are already getting full uni loans and contextual offers which is great but when you weigh up how the other end of the scale is over represented the squeezed middle whose kids get nothing and have no private school or wealth privilege are being further and further screwed.

Is there any party that actually prioritises and helps the squeezed middle?

I disagree. Universities like Imperial do a huge amount of outreach and have financial support for students who are struggling. The degrees they offer are more intellectually demanding. Of course proven ability is relevant.

I'd say this is great advice for any interview, with one addition: don't tell me you are going to use the Star format to answer a question. It's a good way to structure your thinking, but no one needs to mention it.

No idea what Imperial is like but most of my friends at my London university lived with their parents in the suburbs and commuted in on the bus.