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Original poster

Civil Service Fast Stream

212 replies

Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 07:02

Has anyone got any experience or advice about applying for this? My son has just graduated from a prestigious university and is going back to do a masters next year. He is planning to apply to the civil service fast stream in October and is very motivated and excited by this prospect. He is highly intelligent, with excellent grades and good work experience and is a hardworking, very likeable young man who is committed to the idea of using his life to provide public service. He is not motivated by money, he just wants to be of benefit of others, but he does need to earn enough money to live obviously. I know he would be an asset to the civil service but as a white, middle class man with a humanities degree I feel as though the odds are stacked against him before he even applies. I haven’t mentioned this to him, of course, and I am just a passive spectator to his life now really, but if there was any help or advice I could give him it would be much appreciated.

OP posts:
Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 12:18

SecretCS · 01/08/2025 07:29

Firstly, it isnt the FS that is being restricted. It is the summer internship scheme, who will then get some priority to the FS. So there will still be plenty of FS places for white, middle class men. For a long time, it has notoriously been known that the FS is less diverse than the Oxbridge intake. Something needs to change to make sure the senior CS is reflective of the population we are supposed to be serving.

Secondly, many very capable candidates do not succeed at the FS first time anyway. I wouldn't worry too much about the changes - the summer internship scheme is quite a lot smaller than the FS. If he's capable, he will be ok. He needs to do his research about how to apply and present his answers in the CS way.

If he isn't successful, he can still look on Civil Service jobs for direct entry roles - I'd aim for HEO level roles as a new grad.

Once in the CS, you can pretty much progress at the same rate as a FS anyway, you just don't get the benefit of the rotational placements and you need to put your own effort into which training courses you want to attend, rather than having the FS do it for you. Nothing that isnt totally doable for someone with a bit of go-getting about them.

Thank you, I’ll tell him all this. From what he’s said I think he is starting to discover this through doing his own research but it’s good to have it confirmed.

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Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 12:03

GreatBigShaz · 01/08/2025 07:26

The article states "Currently around a quarter of higher education students are from a lower socio-economic background, but the group represented only 12% of successful applicants to the Fast Stream in 2024."

I'm not statistician, but I think that the odds remain stacked in favour of white, middle class men with degrees from prestigious universities, and this move, that affects internships, not the Fast Stream itself, is simply meant to address what appears to be an 88% success rate for people not from lower socio-economic backgrounds.

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I see what you’re saying and I’m probably overreacting. My son would be mortified by me!

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DalstonsRhubarb · 01/08/2025 12:02

Allthecolours2025 · 01/08/2025 11:57

Honestly if he wants to get into the civil service the quickest and easiest way is to just get a foot in the door e.g cs roles advertised at job centres or CS website, accept any role in any department, and then once in, apply for a role in the dept he is particularly interested in and progress from there. I wouldn’t wait around for fast stream as the only option.

This is really bad advice. The fast stream is designed to get you ready for a g7 role, with specific training aimed at this and a structured programme. Going in as an AA and trying to work your way up would be madness, take years and be utterly depressing.

The CS is absolutely packed with white middle class men. You are worrying about nothing.

Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 12:01

Zanatdy · 01/08/2025 07:20

Those kind of schemes are just evening things up. White middle class men generally have plenty of advantages to get themselves ahead. The CS wants to be representative of the communities they serve, and recruiting people from certain sectors of society isn’t easy, as those who have had plenty of educational advantages always pip them to the post. Plenty of middle class men (and women) still join the CS. The fast stream is very competitive, but isn’t the only way to join or become senior. I know someone rejected from the fast stream who made it to G7 ahead of when he would have anyway as a fast streamer.

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Yes, I think finding other routes in might turn out to be the best answer and my son should look into finding different opportunities to join the civil service.

OP posts:
Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:57

SpanThatWorld · 01/08/2025 07:19

My son is a middle class white man with a double First from Cambridge.
He got into an excellent role in the Civil Service at the first attempt despite the terrible, terrible oppression that he faced.
And despite the fact that Mummy didn't get involved with his application.

I also think that he has a nice personality but others may not agree. And he has nice hair which he washes regularly.

That’s nice.

OP posts:
Allthecolours2025 · 01/08/2025 11:57

Honestly if he wants to get into the civil service the quickest and easiest way is to just get a foot in the door e.g cs roles advertised at job centres or CS website, accept any role in any department, and then once in, apply for a role in the dept he is particularly interested in and progress from there. I wouldn’t wait around for fast stream as the only option.

Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:55

GreatBigShaz · 01/08/2025 07:17

I suspect she's read it.

White, middle class man with a degree, with the odds stacked against him, I ask you 🙄

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I understand why you are saying that, and both he and I recognise his privilege, but barely any of his peers from university or school has yet secured a graduate role (just the Oxbridge ones basically). It’s tough out there right now so it’s worrying to read about it being made even tougher.

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NigelPonsonbySmallpiece · 01/08/2025 11:54

My younger brother is on this scheme, got recruited just before Covid. He’s white, middle class. Got a humanities degree (and Masters). So there is definitely hope.

MoveOverToTheSea · 01/08/2025 11:52

Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:49

The masters runs from September 25 to July 26. Applications open in October 25 and they are at least partially aimed at final year students so I guess the fast stream begins in September 26, but I don’t actually know that for sure.

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Like most graduate schemes…

You start applying in October 25 to start your job in September 26.
Thats not particular to CS.
I assume he’ll be applying to other graduate jobs anyway?

LittlleMy · 01/08/2025 11:51

GoatGoatGoat · 01/08/2025 07:17

Oh for Christ sake. I'm a civil servant and I assure you, I work with plenty of white, middle-class men.

When you apply for a civil service job, it's name-blind and they ask you to make sure there are no references to your age, sex, university you studied at etc, to try and eliminate any bias.

There are plenty of resources on civil service website to help him prepare and Reddit has an active civil service forum.

A lot of people apply for fast stream every year so best advice would be not to pin all his hopes to this. Last year only 2% of applicants were successful. Hopefully it goes well for him.

100% concur with this.

As a serving CS, I can assure you there is no bias against any white applicants. We have a large volume of fast streamers pass through my department as part of their multiple placements and so far every one has been white.

August3r · 01/08/2025 11:50

Zanatdy · 01/08/2025 11:47

That stat does not reflect my team in the CS at all. I only know of one privately educated CS in my dept. The remainder are of all different class. But predominantly working class. Including new entrants. The CS has offices all over the Uk.

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The stat is well known so because you don’t discuss education or personally know any colleagues that are privately educated does not make it incorrect.

Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:50

RockaLock · 01/08/2025 07:16

Well, given that the Labour government have just announced that only “working class” children will be allowed to have Civil Service internships because the civil service is too middle class, and that they will then be prioritised for entry to the fast stream, then I would say that yes, applying for a job there now as a white middle class man means you probably will have the odds stacked against you.

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Yeah, that’s what I thought: sigh.

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Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:49

Nocalmwaters · 01/08/2025 07:15

Why is he applying for the fast stream if he’s going back to Uni to do a masters?

The masters runs from September 25 to July 26. Applications open in October 25 and they are at least partially aimed at final year students so I guess the fast stream begins in September 26, but I don’t actually know that for sure.

OP posts:
MoveOverToTheSea · 01/08/2025 11:48

Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:40

I read on the BBC this morning that all civil service internships were to go to working class applicants in future, and I accept this will help make things more fair, but it does suggest that middle class applicants will be at a disadvantage.

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Last year, they had some outreach towards northern universities. The idea was that they wanted to recruit people from ‘the North’ to compensate for all the ‘Southerners’.
Theyre basically tryimg to rebalance things. Not just people from the south (because that’s where a lot of the civil service was). Not just the ‘nice’ MC.

It doesn’t mean white MC men will never have a job in the civil service.

If he has done an internship, he’ll already have a good idea of what to do.
He will have look at other entries than the fast track. He’ll have heard about what they see as important. He will have had contact with different managers that can support his application.
Basically he’ll know more than you ever will.

Zanatdy · 01/08/2025 11:47

August3r · 01/08/2025 11:45

Yes it does. 59% of civil servants are privately educated. Those in the middle who are struggling more and more and not in receipts of any help what so ever, lower student loans, no private education or contacts , with parents struggling to juggle jobs and increasing bills are just excluded.

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That stat does not reflect my team in the CS at all. I only know of one privately educated CS in my dept. The remainder are of all different class. But predominantly working class. Including new entrants. The CS has offices all over the Uk.

Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:46

Sesma · 01/08/2025 07:10

There is a news article on the Civil Service internships today on BBC website that people from working class families will be prioritised. No idea if this affects your son, just really drawing your attention to it.

Thanks. Yes I saw that article and I think it prompted my post. He’s not applying for an internship but for the actual fast stream, so he’s not completely out the game before he starts, thankfully. I also recently learnt that more than 50 per cent of the next fast stream will be students of STEM subjects, which my son is not, so I guess just concerned that the odds are beginning to be stacked against him.

OP posts:
August3r · 01/08/2025 11:45

Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:40

I read on the BBC this morning that all civil service internships were to go to working class applicants in future, and I accept this will help make things more fair, but it does suggest that middle class applicants will be at a disadvantage.

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Yes it does. 59% of civil servants are privately educated. Those in the middle who are struggling more and more and not in receipts of any help what so ever, lower student loans, no private education or contacts , with parents struggling to juggle jobs and increasing bills are just excluded.

Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:40

Zanatdy · 01/08/2025 07:10

Why would a white middle class man have the odds stacked against him? The CS is full of senior officials who are white, middle class men. The recruitment will be blind until the interviews anyway. He can join non fast stream and it’s perfectly do-able to go up the grades pretty quickly.

I read on the BBC this morning that all civil service internships were to go to working class applicants in future, and I accept this will help make things more fair, but it does suggest that middle class applicants will be at a disadvantage.

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Xyloplane · 01/08/2025 11:39

millymollymoomoo · 01/08/2025 11:28

I saw this. Quite frankly it’s discrimination and needs a legal challenge!

im pretty disgusted by it , as i am for any quotas, positive discrimination and DEI hires!

Do you or have you ever worked? If yes, and assuming you’re a woman then chances are you will have actively benefited from DEI programmes. Are you planning on giving up your job, pension, home, savings because they will have been acquired as a result of “discrimination”? Or is it okay when DEI principles work for you?

Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:36

Allotmentblackfly · 01/08/2025 08:22

My very white middle class son finished the fast stream a year or so ago. He hasn’t mentioned any bias towards or away from himself

How did he find it, generally speaking?

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BoredZelda · 01/08/2025 11:35

Sesma · 01/08/2025 07:10

There is a news article on the Civil Service internships today on BBC website that people from working class families will be prioritised. No idea if this affects your son, just really drawing your attention to it.

Which is, of course, the point of the OP’s post.

It does make me laugh when people start to lament how “difficult” things may be for white middle class men.

@Jakolantern, don’t you worry, he’ll be able to be a do gooder, helping out those poor people if that’s what he really wants. How about he volunteers at a food bank in his spare time. Maybe then he will get some insight into how hard it is to not be a white middle class man and actually be the kind of person the Civil Service is trying to recruit.

Original poster
Jakolantern · 01/08/2025 11:35

PermanentTemporary · 01/08/2025 07:07

Id continue to show interest but I’m not sure there’s much you can do. When I did it years ago I flunked the interview big time. So if he doesn’t have a subscription to a serious news periodical (the Economist?) then maybe get him one of those, and try to argue with him about politics, get him to articulate his views to you.

Im just leaving the comments about his personal characteristics out as there’s nothing anyone can do about that and I’m more than a bit tired of these comments about the poor oppressed middle class white guys.

Thank you. Discussing politics is one of his top favourite pastimes, so that sounds hopeful, and he did say something about having signed up to stories from the Economist recently - although I don’t think he has a subscription - so I will talk to him about that.

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ThatLoudBear · 01/08/2025 11:31

OP, you have a white, middle class son: the odds are ever in his favour.

millymollymoomoo · 01/08/2025 11:28

I saw this. Quite frankly it’s discrimination and needs a legal challenge!

im pretty disgusted by it , as i am for any quotas, positive discrimination and DEI hires!

EasternStandard · 01/08/2025 11:25

Xyloplane · 01/08/2025 11:22

You tell me, you’re the one doing the gatekeeping.

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Really. I’m hiring in the CS now, that’s new. If you’re up for Labour’s plan how will it work exactly?

How do they assess jobs and accents?

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