Nurses pay rise

Maybe as it's what people actually SEE. If you are sitting there doing whatever during visiting time( 11am till 8 pm in my local) that's what people will see. Those patients will also see nurses at the desk chatting and laughing during the night shift .

So when do the nurses actually spend much time with patients. From my experience it was when waking them at bloody 6 am ( after stopping patients sleeping half the night with noise, lights and not answering bloody call bells) and insisting on doing obs etc then.

Then the HCA take over with food, refilling water jugs if you are lucky, and maybe making beds.

Just as a patient you think you might get some shuteye before lunch then the lace fills with visitors.

I do remember 2. nurses with fondness during my stay of over a month. One was the ward sister who actually spoke nicely to me and made me a cup of tea in the night after my tubes and wires had got caught up and pulled out of my body trying to get out of bed. The other was an agency nurse who worked 2 shifts. Cheerful and spoke to me like a human being.

No ones saying the nurses aren't doing any work but it's not really patient oriented these dayS

I wish I had time to just sit there, often I rarely have time to have a wee in a 12 hour shift.

Our acuity is ridiculous, our patients are so sick and often we’re minus a nurse.

I hate that everyone buys into the lie that nurses just sit there.

I used to spend visiting hours sat at the desk doing my notes and having my first drink of the day. But for the first 6hrs of my shift I wouldn't have stopped, making sure all the tasks were done prior to visiting so as not to interrupt visitors. The few times I hadn't got everything done and need to ask a visitor to step outside for a moment whilst I did a procedure I would get criticised for taking time away from their visit. Can't win. Nurses are either bone idle or in the way.

The utter disgust that the public has for nurses is one of the reasons I left the profession. Keep going like this and there will be very few nurses left!

The degree was not manufactured, as you put it .
Nursing and medicine has changed significantly over the last 40 years . The technology/ treatments and interventions which are commonplace today were not even thought about when I did my original training over 40 years ago .
The degree level training reflects the capacity to learn these complex processes , and provides the structure to do this . It also provides a selection process for those wishing to attain these skill sets .
Of course it could be said of any professional role that a degree is not required , but that would mean replacing the educational and practical training with other methods .
I totally disagree intelligence is not required . I dont think I could have completed two degrees ( one in a related science subject ) and a Masters , plus a independent and supplementary prescribing qualification without some level of intelligence.

Having said that I do believe carers are woefully underpaid and underappreciated and this should be recognised.

Times change though ,I did project 2000 nurse training ,when Diploma, s were first introduced there were exactly the same arguments then about Diploma, s not being needed ,but nursing has changed immeasurably in the past 30 + years since I started my training
Quite a few people I trained with did the DC test aa I recall it was an IQ test ?
So many people were no doubt capable of getting a degree even with out the relevant qualifications i assume.

Evidence shows time and time again, degree trained nurses improve patient outcomes.
Everyone else who forms part of the MDT is degree trained. Why not the nurse??

In theory you could learn doctoring on the job too though, as long as there’s education sessions in the hospital and time to teach yourself things at home. That was the plan with the new medical apprenticeship. Ultimately though it’s easier to teach complicated things to lots of people in a lecture theatre all at once rather than in bits and pieces while also trying to keep a patient alive. That’s why nursing is a degree now.

I trained pre degree, I don't have any school qualifications , left school at 15, and undertook the dc test to gain a place in a London teaching hospital, I have taken post reg enb courses and other courses pertinent to my speciality, I am a senior cardiac nurse so imo nurses do not need a degree to train, register and become skilled nurses. It's the earlier education that needs improving, many nurses my age hold very senior jobs and work in very demanding roles and research. We were paid a pittance salary, but were guaranteed a job where we trained for 6 months.

Nobody is saying carers are rubbish are they? but wether you like it or not Nurses are qualified health care professionals and carers are not ,it's like comparing a Teacher and a teaching assistant ,both have very important roles ,but the teacher has overall responsibility becsuse of their qualifications.

What do you think nurses actually do?

They would be subject to Agenda for change just like Nurses.

How much do people think a nurses wage should be

Context-worked as a care assistant for over 10 years then went to university and qualified as a nurse; I now no longer work in the field at all & do not maintain my pin any longer.

Care assistants deserve a pay rise, nurses deserve a pay rise, doctors deserve a pay rise. The problem is there just no money to give it, in the private or public sectors alike. Care home budgets and margins are usually incredibly tight. The sad fact is, I left the profession (casualty of covid stress) and now work completely remotely in a job that does not require a single qualification. I get paid after tax £600 more per month than when I was newly qualified nurse. (Full time on an acute medical ward). I would be on a higher salary now whether in NHS or private-but it is imo insulting that people doing really tough jobs with mountains of responsibility are paid so poorly.

Edited to correct spelling, blimming sausage fingers!!

carers deserve better wages and conditions and so do nurses. It’s not a race to the bottom.

carers need to unionise.

Then you are just demonstrating that you do not have a clue about the role of the nurse.

explain why you think a nurse doesn’t need a degree level education?

you’ve also demonstrated that you don’t know what the RCN is 🙄

I think you need a little education - some nurses can prescribe exactly the same as a Dr can

Scotland & Wales still do - though the Welsh is small

You deserve a huge pay rise, funded training with a meaningful qualification at the end of it, sick pay, holiday pay, rotas that don't change last minute, a pool car & tax free incremental retention bonuses for sticking at it, despite how physically & emotionally draining your work is. And you should have it right now, along with an apology from everyone who's undervalued you for years.

I also hope nurses get as much as possible too.

I got all A's at GCSE and A level. I chose to do a nursing degree because I wanted to be a nurse not because I'm too thick to do a 'real' degree.

I am shocked that so far 24% have voted yanbu.

I think nurses are bloody amazing and should be paid more. I also think carers should be paid more. I couldn’t do either of those jobs.

I’m a teacher so you probably don’t think I deserve a pay rise either.

@RubySquid, certainly in the past, things were more hands on. However, our roles as RNs have progressed...but I believe they still are pretty hands on. I'm a ward sister. Today I was in charge of the ward (my manager wasn't in today). So I ran the ward....plus worked a side. I started my shift earlier than the allotted time and finished over an hour after I should have. I washed patients, helped them with meals and toileting, did the drugs round, did some teaching (of junior doctors - showed them how to use the ventilators, manage central/art lines and take samples from them), updated relatives, did observations, made referrals, assisted with transfers, admissions and discharges, wrote A LOT(!), helped colleagues, updated some audits, verified shifts (so bank staff get paid), checked staffing for upcoming days etc etc. I didn't sit at a desk all day, hell I did over 20K steps. I didn't have a break, as we were short staffed and I needed to be on hand (I won't leave my patients). My ward has the sickest patients outside of ITU (we look after level 2 patients), so it is really all hands on deck. It has to be. Pretty much everything I did today is directly related/involved with patients or patient care. I'm not better than the HCAs I work with, I just have more responsibilities and accountability. The list that @Hmnnnnnnn gave is certainly all directly to do with the patients that she looks after. She has to do that stuff.

@Greenfood I think carers should get paid more! I promise you that not all nurses sit at desks, ignoring bells and not caring (I seldom see nurses like this - I wouldn't have that sort of behaviour on my ward). The RNs I know work bloody hard...as do the HCAs, porters, domestics etc. I think RNs should get paid more too. Hell, I think all workers should have pay rises at least in line with inflation rises.

FWIW, I don't believe in an "us and them" or a "nurses are better than carers" attitude. We're all important and our roles are important. I started out working part time jobs as an auxiliary nurse and a hospital domestic when I was at uni. So I know the jobs aren't easy at all.

If you think it is so great and you are already in a similar role, why haven't you just become a nurse?

I honestly think some people comment on nurses to be wind up merchants and I’m daft enough to bite.

I totally agree with your last sentence, however as a senior carer in a unit where there are no nurses on staff, and we had community nursing support where needed, I have also been responsible for a lot of your list there too, I think there's only take blood I haven't been responsible for.
The people I looked after weren't deemed to need nursing input constantly, but all those things needed to be done still, so really your degree and registration aren't needed for those tasks.
Changing a catheter, taking bloods, treating wounds, administration of IV meds and similar are the things we had community nurses visiting for.
Carers don't have a PIN to lose, but that doesn't change that in a care setting we can be responsible for a lot of the same tasks and tbh it's the reason I'd never be senior care again, I feel like a lot of nursing responsibility has been passed on to carers as nurses jobs get more technical and their responsibility also grows, but the training hasn't kept up for carers and the pay hasn't kept up for either role.

As a band 7 A&E nurse not only am I accountable for myself, I'm ultimately accountable for upto 100 patients and 30 staff on one shift. There are so many variables in which I responsible for to ensure people don't make mistakes/are put in vulnerable situations/ensuring breaks are taken/obs are completed/resus patients are escalated/meeting ECS and KPI's/patients are accounted for/missing high risk mental health patients/managing drug errors/staff disputes/conduct issues. The list is literally endless, all for the grand reward of £24 an hour. Its shite. Imagine the same level of responsibility in the corporate world, you would be on £70K+. I've been qualified 14 years as a nurse, my partner who works in finance has had the same wage increase in 5 years that I have had in 14.