To think men shouldn’t be allowed to express pro-life opinions?

The problem is that there are only 6 countries in the world where sex parity, or just over parity, has been achieved in government. there are 20 countries where there are no women, or single figures, in government.

The idea that men expressing an opinion on this is anything other than harmful, has real-life consequences.

BTW I'm not advocating legally banning them. They just shouldn't have an opinion. Any decent man defers to the woman who is pregnant.

Pregnancy is the only medical condition where other people think it's fine to interfere in the patient's decision. I know that many women don't like to think about a pregnancy in those terms but the reality is that this is - to begin with- a medical condition with far reaching implications. The fact that a new human being may result from this process and that the mother may grow to love them unconditionally prevents us from looking at it rationally. However, it is often the most significant biological event that will happen to a woman in her lifetime.

They should be perfectly free to express their opinions.

The rest of us are perfectly free to take no notice of said opinions.

Obviously I am not expressing support on any level for forced birthers. I am defending their right to their (odious) opinions.

Our laws are made by elected representatives. People who express support in a peaceful way for different laws or to changes in the law are not inciting violence.

Are there any other issues you'd like to ban people having an opinion on unless they have relevant personal experience or the potential for relevant personal experience?

I understand your point about men trying to police women's bodies but you can't say they are not allowed an opinion, you don't have to give their opinion any weight, I don't.

That made me laugh out loud! Well said!

Everyone should be able to express their opinion. Are you Keir Starmer?

Men say all sorts of things and I barely listen to any of them. They have proved themselves to not be up to the job of being decent members of society. En masse, of course. Individually some are basically fine, most of the time but rarely all of the time.

What a wicked, dreadful way to think. Of half the human population. People’s much loved fathers, sons, brothers. You probably regard yourself as virtuous and enlightened, a morally superior person, and yet you come out with the nastiest abuse like this. Thank goodness I’m not like you, or know anyone like you. Women like you make me ashamed to be one.

No problem with them having an opinion, though they should be conscious that they are talking about a situation that they may well cause but will never find themselves in.

So their opinion cannot be of equal currency. IMO.

What does outrage me is men taking it upon themselves to make laws about somebodies and choices. When they use their power to give their opinions superior currency to women’s.

Abortion, Trans women in women’s spaces etc etc.

What you're referring to is a parenting issue. Which is what this is for men - do they want to be a parent or do they not. Lots of alternatives to this including foster/adoptive/kinship care, taking on responsibility as a lone parent etc.

Whereas for women it's a different question altogether - do they want to be pregnant, do they want to give birth and go through labour. This affects women in a way it will never affect men and the only solution to an unwanted pregnancy for a woman who does not want / cannot safely experience pregnancy or labour is Abortion.

I disagree with authoritarianism, no matter how ‘reasonably’ it’s presented. You may be in support of this, but what happens when the same rationale is used to silence you?

Shutting down opinions doesn’t stop people from holding them, if anything it only cements and motivates opposition to the permissible one. Personally I would also prefer to know where someone actually stands, rather than have them merely parrot the party line to me.

That isn’t to say I agree with, or indeed respect, pro life opinions, because I don’t. I do however respect that others have the right to their own opinion regardless of how odious I may find it.

I don’t like it, but I suppose that’s how free speech works. A while ago I drove past a bloke wearing a pro-life shirt (there were protests that day at the hospital) and I wound the window down to shout twat. His right to wear it, but the beauty of freedom of speech is that I get to respond.

Thankfully, DD was too young to talk back then so I didn’t have to worry about her repeating it!

Most of our laws don't stop things from happening. They hope to reduce them and to set a line of what society considers acceptable. Our law against FGM does not stop it from happening, but I don't think any feminist would argue for NHS funded FGM on the grounds that if it is going to happen, then it may as well happen safely.

And let's be honest, a lot of the people having the 'debate' are misogynists
it's all about forcing women to give birth to punish them

I simply don't believe this. Are there some people like this? Sure. This does not at all reflect the views of the pro-life people I have known. I don't think it is beyond comprehension that people simply have a moral perspective that human life should be protected, regardless of whether it is born or not. I don't see why we have to pretend all pro-life people are just evil arseholes to make the case for abortion.

And we do have schools and welfare btw. And the only pro-life group I came across does provide support for mothers who keep their babies. I rather suspect that those who say ' pro-lifers give no support to mothers' have never actually done any research to see if this claim is true.

In that hypothetical situation, you will have had 24 weeks to decide. You have to assume that at the cut-off point, the number of women suddenly deciding they don't want a healthy child is very very low indeed. At the point of viability, it is indeed too late. But that's not what the forced birthers are talking about. The people OP is referring to are the absolutists who consider the MAP to be an unacceptable form of contraception. They're the ones who consider any legal termination to be murder.

I don’t think we should ban free speech but should men be making decisions about women’s bodies, probably not. But where does it end, gay people make decisions about Gary rights. Trans people making decisions about trans rights. It’s a difficult one.

I would also like to add that the pro-life position is often frustratingly simplistic. Men who preach at women are the kind of humans that I personally want to avoid and fight as much as physically possible. I hate how binary they make it all sound. Abortion is not about whether or not we value the life growing inside the woman. That is a horrible moral judgement to pass on the woman. Whatever the motivations behind a termination, it's usually about a set of complex considerations that means the woman is not in a position to proceed. Men will never walk in those shoes. If they are really that bothered, they should plough resources into developing a male pill or a male coil, not berate us when we can't grow another human being.

Of course he's allowed to be sad. He's allowed to the his relationship with her if he can not abide her decision. That's his autonomy, he is allowed his reaction.

He's not allowed to stop her from having an abortion or coerce or threaten her to deny her her autonomy.

Well, if that's the premise.... we have 'forced birth' now, if that's what you want to call it. If I am beyond 24 weeks pregnant and the there are no medical reasons for me to have an abortion then I am forced to give birth. Am I inciting violence if I say I support the UK's policy on abortion? Obviously not and that's true if I am female or male.

Pro-life people see this as a debate about protecting human life of unborn humans.

They are simply wrong. You don't prevent abortion, as is evidenced in literally every country in the world. You prevent safe, free, legal abortion.

And let's be honest, a lot of the people having the 'debate' are misogynists. If it was about protecting babies, they would care about those babies. They don't, it's all about forcing women to give birth to punish them. They're not building schools, giving women money to live, helping.

Everyone from the Catholic Church to Trump is clearly not doing it because they love little children. Everyone from the Catholic Church to Trump has actively supported pedophiles in fact.

They can have all the opinions they want - but they should have the decency to shut up...

Everyone should be allowed an opinion, we live if country of free speech, however that doesn't mean you have to give it any air time, just ignore it.

You see, I can't agree with that positioning. Because it depends on one side deciding unilaterally what the debate is about, - women's rights.

Pro-life people see this as a debate about protecting human life of unborn humans.

I see it as debate fundamentally about when we value life, and what sort of lives we value.

Of course they can have an opinion what a bizarre post

Forced birth is a terrible form of violence.

OK I’ll address your other points. I don’t believe debate is heathy in this case. It’s all about moving the Overton window.

But if there is a debate to be had, women can have it. The billions of women around the world are capable of having a debate about women’s rights and women’s healthcare without men.

Interestingly my very Christian aunt, who goes to Christian conferences, and has views about abortion I don’t share, agrees. She was horrified that a panel on it included men. She wants to debate, also agrees it’s women talking, not men.