To think men shouldn’t be allowed to express pro-life opinions?

"So, a woman is allowed a strong opinion on whether complete strangers can circumcise their 5day old male baby and yet, 6 days prior, a man (potentially a partner) can have no say in whether a woman kills (and I think this is the correct word one day before birth) their baby (foetus)?"

Are you remotely aware of how completely stupid this comment is?

As soon as men deposit their sperm into a woman it no longer belongs to them so piss off with that shit.

I don't want to reply to anyone directly here to cause offence or anything, and the thread is going off on some bizarre tangents.

I've never had any concerns around being pro-choice. If something is banned or made illegal, it will still be done regardless of the law; it will just be done in an unsafe manner.

Why have a law that limits your options when one law allows you to have two choices?

If you're pro-life, you still have your option; if you're pro-choice, you still have your option; no one is limited.

The 2nd part to this is, I suppose, men not having a say in an unexpected pregnancy; (I know how awful that sounds), you can do everything right, and it can still slip through the net, so to speak.

This then becomes more of a moral dilemma. Where you are not on the same page, and this could be either way around. I've known women who have had an abortion, and their partners have been crushed about it, but they have supported them, and I've seen the flip side to this.

I agree they are wrong, but surely anybody can call for a law to be changed?

I think there's a difference between expressing pro life opinions and trying to get abortion banned / made illegal.
Anyone who tries to do the latter ( be that men or other women) are wrong.

After a baby is born, both parents have parental responsibility and therefore each get to express their wishes on what they want for the child. This includes having a say over medical decisions.

Before a baby is born, the pregnancy is taking place in the woman's body and she therefore has autonomy over what happens to it.

What happens post-birth cannot be used as justification to override the right to bodily autonomy prior to birth.

YABU

Anyone should be allowed to express any opinions they have. I would hate to live in a society where that is not the case.

But I don't believe that men should have any say in whether abortion is legal.

So, a woman is allowed a strong opinion on whether complete strangers can circumcise their 5day old male baby and yet, 6 days prior, a man (potentially a partner) can have no say in whether a woman kills (and I think this is the correct word one day before birth) their baby (foetus)?

No inconsistency there?

And yes, if you want to argue that the law does not consider a foetus a person until the day of birth, the law also does not consider circumcision assault or genital mutilation.

It’s a difficult one. On the one hand, I hear you op, it can sound and feel outrageously presumptuous when men talk about women’s bodies in a proprietorial way or just talk about them full stop.

On the other hand, don’t we want men taking responsibility for their actions and being involved in women’s issues? And understanding the biological strengths and inequalities that women can face? Men hold so much power in our paternalistic world, that we need them on board to effect change.

I think both sexes should be involved in law making on this issue but men need to learn sensitivity as to when and how they express their opinions. Women have been silenced so often on so many issues over the years; men have to learn when not to speak.

Freedom of speech- good.
Loss of freedom of speech - bad.

Can't believe this needs to be explained.

OP, have you ever read 1984?

After a man has ejaculated, he has no control over what becomes of that sperm because he no longer has ownership of it. If a man is concerned that his sperm might used for a pregnancy then he should think carefully about where he chooses to stick his dick because his rights to ownership of that sperm end at the point of ejaculation.

A man will never end up pregnant, penniless and partnerless, now will he?

Please see previous reply. Men do have a choice about their sperm... It is when they decide whether to have sex with a woman. Even if contraception is used there is always a risk of pregnancy. They can choose not to have sex with the woman. Once the woman is pregnant, that is where their choice ends, the man is not risking his life carry the baby to term and giving birth to the child. There bodies are totally unaffected by the pregnancy. So no men don't get a choice at that point

No I am saying somebody’s rights over their womb are sacrosanct. That’s not taking a life.

That the foetus cannot survive outside of the woman’s womb is no more her concern than the fact that people choosing not to be organ donors means others die.

And we don’t prevent people from travelling around with a communicable disease.
Although that’s by the by as remaining at home
while ill is not remotely akin to being forced to carry a child to term and deliver it against your will.

And it's not their egg.
The woman has the final say because she's the one literally carrying the load.

Wouldn’t be your pregnancy without sperm. And it’s not your sperm.

If you want to live in a country with free speech, then absolutely mental (or women) should be allowed to express any view they want. And I am passionately pro choice..

Of course they should be allowed an opinion, you can't stop someone having an opinion, everyone has them about everything.

What they shouldn't be allowed is final decision making power regarding someone else's body. Nor should other women apart from the actual woman having to make that decision for herself.

Not when it concerns women's bodies they don't get no bloody say or freedom of speech.

When men have vagina's, can conceive then carry a baby full term and birth it they can have a say and an opinion. But until mother nature and biology grant men this ability they need to stfu!

No one, especially men have the right to decide what a woman can and cannot do with her own body. They aren't the ones making the lifestyle changes and dealing with pregnancy related health issues, they do the fun part but women do all the hard work so they get to decide if they want to put their bodies through pregnancy.

I have no obligation to someone having an opinion even it differs to mine. The trouble comes when people think they can dictate!

A man doesn't have that luxury just like a woman doesn't have the luxury of walking away. It's life.

Sure.
And it's my opinion that they're dickheads.

Surely we're not so fragile that we can't hear an opinion we don't like, and move on and ignore it?

I do feel for men who want to be a father and don't have a choice in whether their partner has the baby or not.

However, just anything else is abhorrent, the idea that someone may have rights over what happens with someone else's body. Or that doctor are so worried about what is and what isn't legal that they may hesitate to save a women's life as they cannot terminate a pregnancy. Women's rights in this regard are so poor anyway in many countries in the world, including developed ones such as Poland and the US. Shame on them.

I'm not for stopping people expressing opinions even when they are opposite to mine, or ridiculous, or poorly formed, as long as they are not illegal (such as spreading racial hated etc).

But yes, I agree that men don't have a clue generally, and people should definitely continue to be stopped from protesting outside clinics.

Yep they have that choice when they decide whether or not to have sex with a woman. Not their decision after they've got her pregnant