To cut holiday short

This kind of shows that punishments don't work - not going to the playground isn't a logical consequence to a 6 year old for playing up, as demonstrated by him not understanding. So it's not going to change his behaviour going forward.

I do feel for you though, my son is 6 and I've been holidaying with him just the 2 of us since he was 3 - there have definitely been days like that where I just want to say right, we're going home and never coming away again. But of course that wouldn't achieve anything. I think in your case, going home a day early just for your own sanity is absolutely fine. Then have a think about some of the advice on this thread and what might work for you x

Most others have said too many transitions why are you back and forthing to your apartment necsictating shoes on/ off everytime ? I would go to breakfast fully packed for that mornings' activity. I would take both up to buffet with me so they got to choose their breakfast. Linger then straight on to playground or whatever. I used to take sandwiches with me but you may prefer to go back for lunch- I would never ( even now as an adult) go home if had less than 1.5 hour there.

@ToddlerSleep all normal and although you have a huge list it’s just really kids being kids. .
Yes they are trying to push boundaries a few times .Tbh op they sound bored. .
You also don’t sound like you can handle the kids on your own. Who usually does the parenting ?

I use gentle parenting and I also have neurodivergent twins (now teenagers). I absolutely understand the pain.

The fact you've packed the car up but are still dithering about whether to go suggests to me that you don't always follow through with consequences.

Kids absolutely press your buttons, for all of the reasons that PP mentioned. It can be exhausting. But it sounds as if you're not helping yourself because you're getting sucked into discussions and debates, and providing opportunities for bad behaviour.

Your 4 yr old shouldn't have the chance to run off because he either has reins on or he's holding your hand.

Opening the door - one opens it on the way out, the other opens it on the way back. No discussions. Don't get sucked in.

You need to be firm, clear, and consistent. If you say you're going to do something - do it. Don't threaten to go home and then change your mind. If you say there's going to be a consequence, there needs to be a consequence.

There doesn't need to be shouting or raised voices but there needs to be clear expectations, and ways for the children to succeed. If your DS takes 2 hours+ to get dressed at home, he's not suddenly going to do it in half the time in strange surroundings just because you want him to.

I wonder also whether you've built this holiday up in your head to be a wonderful adventure where you all have lots of lovely fun whereas parenting with two youngsters is often just about getting through a warzone!

I really feel for you.

DS saw a child psychologist for a while. He was really struggling with changes to routine, and holidays (whether at home or away from home) were a nightmare.

Psychologist suggested drawing up a plan for each day, and getting DS involved. Not letting him have free reign, but an input. For example, tomorrow were are going to go to the shop and to the playground- what shall we do in the morning, and what shall we do in the afternoon?

Or if away on holiday- literally draw up a timetable as if we were at school, showing times of activities and meals.

I was a bit sceptical but it did seem to help him see what was expected of him, and also got him excited for things. He could see from the timetable that if he messed around, we’d be late and he would miss the activity.

I think your expectations are too high considering the circumstances. Tired, stressed children with a stressed mummy and no daddy.

Points 1-9 were fairly unremarkable. The 4 year old running off is the most important thing to address. If the older one is teasing, split them up or are you all in one room?

Let them get themselves ready and help them with shoes if they need it, why does it need to be a standoff?

Be less rigid with activities and let them go to the playground to burn off the energy rather than have to sit at a show. Tell them behaviour expectations beforehand, especially 4 year old not running off.

You are in charge so allocate the door opener, etc.

Last day rules. They each hold your hand to and fro. Mam opens the door etc. Mam chooses seats. A race to get ready and put shoes on - or just do it (it's a big ask for some 4 year olds even in home time routines). Lots of praise where possible. You know the trigger points now so I think you can reset and manage them.

One of my children was like this so when he woke up one morning I had removed all of his toys and all screens and remotes. I excitedly told him that all music played in the car will be my choice, everything we do for the next few days will be exactly what I want to do, no playgrounds or fun for him until he earns those things with respectful/ good behaviours. For instance he needs to do specific behaviours like get dressed in under 5 minutes using a timer.
It sounds severe and slightly unhealthy to do such a thing but instantly I regained my power in the relationship and my son was thoughtful about his actions. I would do it again in a heartbeat if his behaviour gets out of hand again. While I was doing it I kept reminding him that he will see we have lots more fun when everyone is kind and helpful and that is something that has stuck with him in a positive way.

So you’ve packed and told them you are leaving? I think you have to follow through.

It also sounds like there’s some great but gentle parenting going on. Too many discussions not enough authority which seems to be needed with your kids. Could you stay for the day but go home before bedtime?

I think all these booked activities are probably putting a lot of pressure on.you and the children. Getting out of the house during the hols/weekends is often the worst part of the day for us (DD6 and DS12 - but has learning disabilities so functioning at similar level to DD). You're going in and out a lot - that would create a lot of conflict with my two.

I think that it would help you cope better if you could reframe their behaviour and think of it as they're not coping rather than choosing to misbehave.

I think that the spilt drinks etc is common for young, excited DC. With the door I would just say that you are doing the door from now on.

If you want to go home then go home. Sorry that your holiday has been such a disappointment.

Oh thank goodness someone else said this. I was scrolling down thinking old someone say this is just life with kids!

This
Do stop giving them choices but be firm and kind with instructions
And even though they’re on holiday they should understand safety for themselves and those around them ie to walk sensibly going to and from activities in case there’s any traffic (not sure where you’re located but I think it’s relevant anyway)
If they kick off in the flat, consider time out for both - just for a few moments to endorse matters.

Haven’t read the thread yet but useless parent is a phrase that should be scrapped from most mums’ playbook. They are seriously tough ages to keep occupied and or go on holidays with x

I'd do less transitions for sure,cut activities and put a movie on and snuggle up with them,they sound overwhelmed and dysregulated and regressing as out of routine and finding it too much.my DD is currently the same with needing me to put her socks on,it's asking to be connected and babied abit to reassure them,it's incredibly annoying when trying to get out,but sitting then on your lap and going it nicely once may help them feel safer and not need it next time.
Definitely enforce hand holding for any runners,tell them they need to get safe and holiday park rules are safety first etc.
Holidays are exhausting with kids,it's harder than being at home so downsize expectations and do less activities.
tell then if they can't cope with it and behave to holiday park rules-the rules not your rules-they will have to go home.
praise for good behaviour don't forget.
Cut out breakfast/,eating out maybe,buffets with that age is really hard and spillage inevitable.

How does this work when OP is alone with 2 children?

*However, my two are both neurodivergent.

The “teasing” is more like dopamine seeking - knowing they shouldn’t do it and wanting to be good for mummy, but seeking a reaction from the other for excitement and even when told not to, the impulse to do it is too strong. The other child is then super-reactive and all hell breaks loose. So child one gets their dopamine, child two explodes, reacts and retaliates and child one responds and so on.

This is my life. It’s not bad behaviour, it’s dysregulation.*

My two are 12 and 14, and are both neurodivergent however while dysregulation might explain the behaviour, the behaviour still needs to be managed because they need to function outside of the home where people frankly don’t care what underlies it.

So open defiance, picking at each other, not following safety rules all need addressed, in conjunction with supports that help with sensory overload, deal with boredom, meet the need for dopamine etc. A combination of helping them to regulate and helping them get on with the day.

Loving all the ‘just be firm and tell them to stop bickering’, ‘keep hold of the 4 year old all the time’ type advice! Tell me you’ve never dealt with two bickering, strong willed siblings on your own without saying it out loud. 🙄
”Have croissants and berries for breakfast in bed instead of going to the buffet’ has got to be a MN classic😂And you wonder why MN has a reputation for being full of smug, middle class mummies!

It is absolutely relentless and draining dealing with children like this and I’m so impressed that the OP is so patient. I’d pack up, go home and chalk it up to experience.

Tough op. Been there; but add my mum to the mix judging!!! That was a non repeatable situation!!! Young kids are awful on holiday, and these ones are sensing you’re solo and taking the piss. I’d go home, chalk it up, get a gin and whinge the arse off hubby. They’ll be fine once they’re teens…trust me. 🤣🤣🤣😱

From their perspective they’re in a strange place and everyone misses daddy. Sounds like everyone might rather be at home.

I mean.... this kinda just sounds like my day to day life at home. They're young kids. Let them be kids and get on with it! Yes try to stop the older one teasing however you might do that, but this sounds pretty standard days to me with a 7 & 4 year old.
It's true that being away just means looking after them in a different location.

If they’re taking 2 hours to get ready at home and now you need them up and out in their eyes the goalposts have changed. Explain once that they need to get ready and then literally walk them through it so “ put your pants on now, that’s great now your socks etc” and if they don’t do that step do it for them.

More generally I’d think about what works for them separately. I think sometimes we’re so focussed on treating kids the same way for consistency we don’t realise that what works for one doesn’t work for the other.

My two are completely different personalities and need very different approaches. My DS responds to explanation and negotiation, my DD just needs to know what she needs to do - explanations in the moment distract and confuse her so we talk things through at a time that I don’t need her to do something immediately and refer back eg “remember we spoke about going X today, I need you to get ready now”.

Like @Theroadt i suspect their behaviour isn’t new but at home you have ways of dealing with it, are distracted etc and have just found a way. That may be working for you day to day but you need to get on top of it now because once they’re bigger, and their behaviour becomes more tricky it’ll be much harder to get on top of.

I so feel for you OP. I would echo a lot of what’s already been said but also ask whether the boys could be missing their Dad? Is this the first time you have taken them on holiday alone?
I have wonderful memories of childhood holidays but it definitely wasn’t always wonderful for my folks! DM told me about a holiday in Wales when I was about 5 & I just would not do as I was told the whole week. She & DF could cheerfully have strangled me!

Really agree with this, sounds very much like your kids are over stimulated by it all. Behaviour you describe suggests this, not a reflection of you as a parent at all. See it through a different lens OP and it will help you a lot to manage it differently. Sounds like they are better suited to much more low key holidays away, less transitions to doing things all day. An air bnb with a pool and trips out for an icecream, being able to just potter about playing and grownups to take them off places individually to lessen the squabbles until they are older. Cut the holiday short and all spend time back at home chilling! X

You have my sympathies because you’re describing my life, except my two are 14 & 12 and yes it is exhausting.

However, my two are both neurodivergent.

The “teasing” is more like dopamine seeking - knowing they shouldn’t do it and wanting to be good for mummy, but seeking a reaction from the other for excitement and even when told not to, the impulse to do it is too strong. The other child is then super-reactive and all hell breaks loose. So child one gets their dopamine, child two explodes, reacts and retaliates and child one responds and so on.

This is my life. It’s not bad behaviour, it’s dysregulation.

I’m not diagnosing your child here btw just offering an alternative consideration, among all the chat of behaviour and punishment.

However, several things you’ve said, including the running away and the suggestion that the teasing is compulsive, suggest to me that this is with at least considering.

anyway, in your shoes yes I would go home early so you all have the opportunity to decompress and relax in your own safe space.

edited to add: all that stuff about controlling how the door is opened etc sounds very much like my child two who has Pathological Demand Avoidance, or as PDA is sometimes termed, Pervasive Drive for Automony. Check out At Peace Parents on Facebook or insta for some info about what this looks like in real life.

Ah bless you I think lots of us have had holidays like this. It can be that they are fine at home and for a combination of reasons much much more tricky in holiday. Give yourself credit for what you tried to do here and plan something you’re looking forward to even if its just a cuppa and a programme once they are in bed. I would just put their clothes on them in order to get out if its really annoying you. Once home do a reward chart or similar to get back on track with doing it themselves
I would also try to get some 1:1 time with each of them, in my experience this can drastically reduce the squabbling and teasing. So for example one of them watches tv with a nice snack in one room (make it fun, not a punishment at all) and the other does a puzzle or game with you for 30 mins then swap. Hard when you’re away but maybe worth a try.