To cut holiday short

You're right to equate it to bullying. My partner and I - both retired headteachers - were discussing this and agreed that constant teasing of siblings (it was called "tormenting" when I was a child) often carries on into school and becomes bullying if not stopped.

Glad you made it to the end of the week.

I want to comment on 4 yr old and inside voice. Do not allow him to make you feel guilty. You shouted because he was doing stuff that only adults should do. (Remotes and phone chargers). You cannot let him make you think that you should not have told him off.

Can you ask dad to support you when you get back - ask children if they had a nice time - and then ask if mummy had to shout. He should support you here and be VERY CROSS. It is so important that children do not try the divide and conquer technique with parents.

And going forward I think I would have let him go out in his pj top. Let him know that people will think he is a baby. That is a battle that can slide. Electric stuff is dangerous.

Well done OP, you survived!!!! I’m so glad you managed to have a (mostly) nice day after the rest of the week. Parenting can be really tough at times.

You have my absolute sympathy - I have DDs 18 months apart, and am a single parent. They’re teenagers now but all holidays when they were young were just me and them and I vividly remember thinking wtaf was I thinking??? I would strongly recommend this book - https://amzn.eu/d/a957gDJ - it was a game changer for me - and a giant egg timer - a minute for every year they are in age. If you’re away a little timer. Pick a designated thinking space that they retreat to when they’re behaving badly, it just gives the option to separate them and give them space to think about their behaviour. And a few minutes for us. It does get easier.

You have my sympathies. What struck me the most is how often you've said that the 6 year old is teasing the younger one. Does this lead to arguments and tears? Is this normal behaviour for them or is it only happening while you're away? Siblings will argue and its normal to a degree but it seems like it is too much. I'd suggest start researching some specific strategies to deal with this issue. In the short term, id probably try straight up bribery. Take him to one side and explain x behaviour really upsets his younger brother, you want to have a really lovely holiday and if he can make an effort to be kinder, there can be some kind of small treat/incentive.

Getting ready/getting out the door is the bane of parents’ existence everywhere. I think you have to be a bit patient with a younger one but the oldest should be more organised. I would recommend discussing the plans for the day the evening before but say you wont be able to do x activity (like maybe a quick 20 minutes in the park first thing before breakfast) if they aren't ready in time. I'd start helping them tonubdeestbd the concept of time by teaching about the time and using timers etc.

I agree that if the younger one js a runner, he should be on reins. I know there is some disapproval but better a safe under control child on reins than a child who could hurt themselves. Again, it should be explained why this approach is being taken so there's clear consequences.

It strikes me from the examples it just seems like a lot of chaos without any consequences built in. ‘A and B, if you can get dressed and get your shoes on when the timer is finished in 20 minutes, we can go to the park for 15 minutes before breakfast.’ if they're not ready ‘Sorry boys, you were not ready in time so no park this morning. If you can improve your listening ears we can go later.’ Park is just an example but you could try other things like Ipad time or whatever works.

My kids can be exactly the same! It sounds as though you are at Butlin’s which is full on and they might be overstimulated and over tired too.

I presume your DH is wise to that kind of routine and found that he was way too busy to be able to take the time off. p.s. He's probably having the best holiday right now. Go home early and next time don't bother doing it on your own. If he won't go take staff and use his money from working to pay for it.

OP you may well have gone home at this point, all sympathy. 4 yr old on reins, hold the 6 yr old firmly by the hand, don’t let go. Be sharp, there’s no need for all of this. Teasing? Pull him up and speak firmly. On repeat. I wouldn’t be bothered about who opens what door. They can’t behave ? Sharp talking to.
it is much easier with two parents. Hang on in there.

They won't care they will be happy to go home to see daddy

Only if the OP actually carries this through.

End the holiday early because of their behaviour. And tell them so. (Although it seem like your older son is the main culprit). Tell them every holiday will end early if that happens again.

It sounds tough. I think kids on holiday loose all send of routine and do go a bit mental. I would say pick your battles. Just get their shoes on for them, give them an outfit and ask them to put them on a few times. Then say it’s now or never.
kids will run off and argue, crikey mine do.
Dont feel like you have to do everything perfect in a different environment from home. Xx

I think you’re bloody fantastic to try and give your kids these lovely experiences.

and you are definitely doing something right if your son is bring so sweet with that other kid… kids don’t just pick that stuff up, you know, that’s the fruit of your good parenting!

give yourself a pat on the back, you’ve made the right choices all along the journey up to today, you can have confidence that your next decision will probably be right too!
💐

Are you choosing your battles wisely with them? My youngest is 7, and I often help him get dressed. It saves both our tempers and everything is calmer. It doesn't mean he cant dress himself, he can when he needs to. I don't feel I give in either. We help eachother out. I help him with his shoes, he helps me go and grab the car keys or whatever. Most things flows really well at ours, kids play nicely together, no whining, good manners and listening etc.

I am no supermum by any means, we sometimes have devices at the table, I help them with getting dress, tidy up etc. I probably 'should' not do some of these things. But I am not going to wish away or argue the precious time I have with them. It is soul destroying repeating rules like a parrot that no one listens too. If its not working, try something else?

Next time, OP, stay at home. Spend your money on a babysitter instead.

It sounds like they're bored. Although there are activities they don't seem to have any positive interaction with you or each other and activities sound organised for them rather than with their involvement.

I'm not sure how you cope at home, you say you send them to their room which isn't solving anything or changing anything, it's very punative and pointless.

I never had this with my 3 but it sounds hard. You have to be in charge in a positive way rather than just reacting to what they do, they can't be expected to know how you want them to behave in the current situation.

As a younger sibling I just have to thank @Saladbar for saying it so well.

Your older child is a bully, and whilst he is old enough to know he is being mean he is not old enough to stop on his own. You must stop him!
Holding down and tickling a smaller child while they cry is unconscionable.
Imagine someone doing that to you. Imagine how you would cope with having had that done to you and you might meet them again.
Now imagine having to live with that person every day and everyone knows they do it but nobody stops it, and you have nowhere else to go.

Back in the mid 90s my DH had to look after my girl s during the summer - he had longer off than I did. I came home at 3 pm to take over.

My girls were usually reasonably well behaved, we could add their same aged cousins into the mix and still have no problems. As they have grown I have thought about how easy it was - and realize that youngest always gets on with people. She never argued with her friends even when they were in secondary school. Eldest was assertive so even though she was only older by 18 months she guided them both. So I was lucky.

That is the context - the point of my post is that one morning at the start of the holidays I had a call from them in tears. Their father had smashed the new Fox and the Hound video cassette. He was reading in the next room and they were arguing over whether to play it or not. He was fed up with the fuss. I was horrified- it was£16.99. The fact that I remember the title and cost shows how important it was. We had only seen it once, in those days there were no alternative media to find stuff. Their summer present was gone.

They have since laughed about the incident and accept that it was a fair punishment. They also say that there was no squabbling from then on. They knew that dad meant business. I don’t think he ever said something more than once.

So the story is to say that you do have to mean what you say. Children will not hold it against you if they know that the punishment fits the crime eg ‘you run off’ results in reins or having hand held OR you don’t go out ( this needs a second parent to stay at home while the non- running away child gets to go wherever had been promised.

OP you have had some good advice, follow it. Your children have time to change before they become teenagers and give you a terrible life. You will not regret any changes that you make and your children will thank you for the peace the changes bring.

Hi - do they know what behaviour is expected? I know it sounds obvious but in addition to telling them to stop what they're doing explain to them what they should be doing. Also if you go home early and youve decided days after certain behaviours, they may not realise that's the reason why.
I'd explain how you want them to behave and that if they dont do that you will be going home early. e.g. when we walk to the activity, you need to walk not run and to talk nicely and politely to each other. If you run or tease each other we will go straight back to the flat. Or back home!! Good luck 👍

Being kind to other children doesn’t excuse constant meanness and bullying to his own brother. I’m not shocked your 4yr old constantly runs off.

Took mine this year and they both loved it 😆 But they also both got taken back for a rest each day! Depends on personality types, if they enjoy rides and managing expectations I think. My children also aren’t allowed to pick on each other which I think is OPs biggest issue. I frequently acted out due to having a brother who was constantly a bully.

I’d have absolutely lost it at the 6yr old by now for being a bully. Your 4yr old sounds more age appropriate to me (I also have one that age). We have 0 tolerance for teasing in our house and your 6yr old doesn’t seem to have any consequences for being repeatedly mean?

’DS6 keeps teasing DS4 and eventually he is lying on top of DS4 tickling him while DS4 is crying.’ This is seriously NOT ok or normal. A 6yr old knows not to do this and the laying on him and tickling him whilst your younger child cries is really alarming to me. I was SA by an older sibling who would ‘tease’ me a lot and my parents did nothing and it increasingly escalated as they knew there were no consequences. I’m not suggesting tickling is SA but this must be stopped now. He does not get to lay on your 4yr old ever or touch his body whilst he is crying. I’d have absolutely lost it at this.

Spilling drinks and asking for help are normal. The teasing, nastiness and constant complaining are not. I feel really sorry for 4yr old and am not surprised he’s acting out when he’s being constantly picked on.

'Lying on top of DS4 tickling him while DS4 is crying'. DS6 always 'teasing' DS4. It sounds like your older child is bullying the younger one. Is this why DS4 is running off?

As for the holiday, I'd probably just go home if it were me , as it doesn't sound like anyone is having much fun?

I'd say the bigger issue here is why DS6 feels the need to constantly 'tease' /bully his younger brother; and how this is going to stopped in the longer term (if this is a pattern at home also?).

If it helps, I remember going to Disney world before I had children and I remember noticing how many small children were bickering, tantrumming, and how many parents looked completely at the end of their tether. I think this behaviour is normal for a lot of young children when they are in exciting, unfamiliar places.

And I've never taken my kids to Disney world!