to move to get ds out of trouble even tho we can't really afford it

Just reread your update. Social care will not remove your younger children for this, exploitation is seen as harm from outside the home. You do need to explicitly tell them your worries for your younger children as a result of this though. There are charities that offer support for child to parent violence too, it’s worth a google to see what’s in your area.

Have you told the social worker exactly what is happening? They need a really clear picture.

Can you track his phone, does he leave bits and pieces around the house like train tickets that might indicate where he is going?

You need as much information as you can get, and that needs to be shared. Police don’t want to criminalise young people, but they do need to be able to figure out who is exploiting him to take action.

Ring Ivison Trust for support for yourself.

If it’s county lines, he won’t be able to just stop. They’re likely to have threatened to harm him, and your family, and he will know this is serious. He will be terrified and this leads into the behaviour you see.

Does he have a good relationship with anyone? Get them to spend time with him, just doing things and chatting, give him the opportunity to open up. If it was my child I would move them to the ends of the earth, but I know there is so much else to consider especially with the other children and the likelihood that they will either find him or he ends up in the wrong crowd again.

This is so tough, I really wish you the best of luck.

a few people have said he needs to go but hes only 16 i cant just throw him out. hes not 18 til next august and no one will take him anyway. social worker already said there’s no foster carers who would and tbh i dont blame them the way he is right now. but that dont leave us with many options does it

He's your son and you love him despite everything. But that is not your problem. It's the social workers problem. They are bullshitting you. You tell him to leave and let them sort out where he goes. Tough love is needed. They are depending on you not being willing to go there. If you do they MUST deal with it.

Have you tried this charity OP?
www.catch-22.org.uk/find-services/county-lines-support-and-rescue/

Please don't move. You can uproot your family but the trouble will go with you if this is county lines - and it does sound like it is. I am afraid there are only two things you can do and you need to do both no matter that it breaks your heart. Kick him out, and tell the police why. There is support available for you and him, and the police are more interested in the bigger fish - but he has to want to change and unless he does you will not be safe.

I wonder if there’s a specialist charity or something who can provide support and advice to you?

I know nothing at all about this so I don’t know the best way to deal with it.

My concern would be how to do the move, timings, and whether any of you are safe at home especially if some drug dealer finds out he’s leaving. Is it possible that he owes someone money for example? When it comes to selling drugs, don’t they give them drugs then collect the money after? If someone were to be whisked off while owing someone money I assume they wouldn’t easily forget it for example? Are there other family members around who you’d need to worry about the safety of? (Grandparents etc)

That invites questions of how far away you’d need to go, whether he’d still be contactable, and whether there are any ties to people he’d be leaving behind that could be used against him

I am not trying to scaremonger - I literally know nothing about it so I’m not saying any of this is realistic. It’s just the kind of scary thoughts I’d have in my mind that would make me want to be very careful and get very confidential advice rather than a big snap decision that may cause issues that you hadn’t considered.

If he’s coming back home beaten up and refusing to speak about it, I’d be worried about the safety of your other children where you are now.

He has to go OP what a dreadful situation for you. The best thing for him right now is prison and that will be the only thing that might kick him up the arse. If it doesn't I'm afraid you'll have to let him go. Moving won't solve a single thing, I doubt he would even go with you x

You need to call the police and have him arrested for assault the next time he touches you. And report all the other times he's assaulted you, threatened you, etc. You need more support from police, social workers, etc or this is all going to end very badly.

I would be telling social services he can't stay there any longer as well. Pack his things and tell him he's out. It's not fair to your other children to let him stay.

I doubt he would go with you OP, even if you said you were relocating. He would probably move in with a mate.

That. You'll have all the upheaval and expense, and he won't go with and you won't be able to make him.

I'm sorry, but you need to prioritise your other children, who are being damaged by growing up in fear and who cannot feel secure and safe in their own home. You need support to get him out. I know that sounds terrible, but he's one child and you have three other innocent young children being damaged for life.

Is he in contact with his dad? Do you think being in with criminals is what he wants to emulate?
Is there any times when you can talk to him? Ask him if he'd like a fresh start?

Call the police, surely??

You are also right to be concerned about the trouble he is bringing to your door. When these people want their money you and your family will be in danger. Sorry op it is very frightening.

When I say he is too old I mean if he was 11 or 12 he might be saved but he seems to have found his feet in this horrible role already.

If you can move and you think you can get him out of the area with you then don’t worry too much about his settled the younger ones are in school etc.
they’ll adapt and they’ll be fine.

but you’d really have to move significantly far away, real totally change your whole life and jobs kind of move. Otherwise he’ll just buses or picked up or something and stay in contact with the people he’s involved with.

but realistically that will be very difficult, it doesn’t sound like he’ll engage and he receptive to that so you have to kick him out. You have to do it for your own safety and that of your little children.

they are now in an abusive household, witnessing their mother being abused. And are scared of their brother.
dont underestimate to the risk that your 8 year old could easily be dragged into this in not too many years by his older brother.

What a horrible mess. Can you talk to him to tell him you can see he’s in trouble, and you think a move out of area might help, find out if he would come with you?
If you think he would, then I would arrange a move some distance away, but don’t tell him exactly where until it’s sorted - I’d be worried he’d let the cat out of the bag.
My view is that none of you are safe where you are. I think telling the police could backfire, so don’t do it until you’ve moved and do not reveal your new address to the police or anyone else.

Exactly. Is he sufficiently scared to change his ways? If not, he's not in trouble, he is trouble.

You have three younger children.
You need to protect them, and yourself, by throwing him out and let the social deal with him from here.

Never a happy ending with these lads once they take this route though. I have seen it many times as part of my job.
If he really has gotten himself tangled up in the world of county lines as opposed to just a bit of extreme teenage rebellion then prison or dead is usually the final destination.

I think he might be too old to benefit from a move. I wouldn’t uproot your whole family. As pps said he would either come back to your area where he has connections or he would look for new ones where you are.

I understand how you feel as I have a family member who briefly got involved with older people doing drugs. Once I gave them a lift and they were acting crazed and desperate for money and they assaulted me. I called the police and they were arrested. I know what you mean when you say how frightening it is. I don’t think you can live with him any more. I am very wary of this family member and I won’t give them a lift again.

I think if you moved it should be to get away from him for your own safety.

Please feel free to message me. We had a similar situation with my boy at 15. He is 18 now. It’s so hard. The drugs are everywhere- we are very rural. It can change BUT it is not easy & you have to have a hard line, especially because of your younger ones (I didn’t have that extra worry). We have come out the other side & everything is so very good now. There can be light at the end of the tunnel!

Moving won't make any difference, if he is as entrenched as he seems to be. Do not tolerate the violence, call the police - every time (hardest thing that I ever did but it did trigger more help)
This is not something that you can manage without external help.

This is heartbreaking, you poor love. I agree with others - he can’t live in your house with the little ones.

Have you told the police? If not you need to.

You are in an awful situation and I’m so sorry that you and your family have to deal with this. Drugs and county lines are so difficult to deal with.

If you move, sadly, there’s no guarantee he won’t get involved again. They are everywhere.

C4 had a program on 24 hours in police custody called Lost Boys recently and it focused on this issue. Some families were given relocation deals in exchange for information. I don’t know how they did it, or even if you could consider it but it might be worth a watch and to find out more information.

Good luck.

I have no advice but I'm sorry you're going through this, you sound like you're trying to do your best in an awful situation.