Why are the Arab countries tougher on Hamas than we are in the UK?

It all boils down to 9/11 and the Western civilization having it's arse handed to it, it's scared governments so they give into this crap out of fear of being the next target

But what/ who is the state of Palestine right now?

Exactly, if they cared about the citizens of Gaza they would give back all the hostages, in fact they wouldn't have even launched their attack in the first place. What exactly did Hammas think was going to happen after they attacked, raped, murdered and kidnapped citizens of a country with such a strong military force, they knew exactly what Israel would do and they went ahead anyway. I have huge sympathy for the people of Gaza, what they are going through is horrific, but Hammas started this and they could end it, but they chose not to.

Civil war?

Hamas are just one of the many many horrific extremist Muslim organizations, and like many others funded by Iran. They want to destroy the west.

Israel on the other hand just wants the continue down the path of ethnic cleansing of the west bank, and likely Gaza too. They don't want to destroy the West, they just want our support to do that.

You can recognise states without recognising governments. Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation, therefore it's illegal to support them.

I can't comment as to the reasons, but it's apparent to be that very large numbers of western politicians either do not understand or are more interested in votes than integrity, but the simple truth is this:

The resolution to middle eastern peace involves crushing islamism and achieving modernisation.

That must happen to end terrorism, abuse of women, war, violence, oppressive theocracy etc etc

Westerners are very good at understanding the role oil and war has played in creating the humanitarian crisis that's been ongoing for decades, but they struggle to see the role Islamic extremism has played.

Moderate or monarchy states understand those violent ideologies must be crushed, not encouraged or rewarded. And while none of these places are liberal or democratic, they are at least moving forwards.

Hamas and such groups want to move backwards, and the amount of suffering empowering such groups can cause is astronomical.

And Ireland supported Hitler. What’s your point?

I presume its because they are the only ones who have any influence over them. Hamas have got what they wanted-war in the ME, a breakdown of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries and they have used their own people as human shields to demonise Israel in the eyes of the world (ably assisted by Netanyahu and the Israeli government)
No matter how many marches people go on the only people that matter are the Qatari government and the US government. Qatar and other Arab countries are putting pressure on Hamas. The US government needs to do the same with Israel. The rest of the world ( including us) are insignificant.

I can’t see that Hamas handing Palestine to Isreal will do anything to further peace in the region which is certainly one way of interpreting the call for Hamas to surrender

Yes, the Holocaust happened and was horrific.

But what does that have to do with starving Palestinians now?

@Voxonwhat you say is concerning. Macron seems to have tied peace conditions to the state, whereas Starmer bizarrely is the only one reversing on conditions.

The Arab nations in op are making more robust and better informed statements.

You are clearly incapable of having a civil debate.
I am free to edit a post.
I am free to have a conversation and view point.
No need for the personal attacks.

No, I'm addressing one point made, in a post. If that's uncomfortable for you, why is that?

Arab states see the threat of Islamic extremism. As long as there are people like Hamas operating in the region, it’s a threat to moderate Muslims. When Egypt was briefly governed by the Muslim Brotherhood, they opened up the tunnels into Sinai from Gaza, which allowed Isis to enter. It took years for the Egyptian army to rid the country of Isis, after they had overthrown the Muslim Brotherhood.

Western politicians are free to behave like 6th formers, without understanding the consequences or without thinking those consequences will happen any time soon.

Arab leadership understands the islamist threat much more clearly. They were probably cringing at Macron and Starmer.

If a Palestinian state is recognised and then Hamas or another militant Islamist force overthrows the Palestinian Authority and seizes full control - West Bank and Gaza - the regional fallout would be massive.

Imagine this chain of events:

1. UK, France, and others recognise Palestine.

1. Hamas uses that momentum to oust the PA in the West Bank (as it did in Gaza in 2007).

1. A Hamas-controlled “State of Palestine” is declared, covering both Gaza and the West Bank.

1. The international community is paralysed because recognition has already happened.

1. Iran celebrates. Israel mobilises.

For Saudi, the Abraham Accords dead. Saudi normalisation with Israel collapses, Saudi clerics and hardliners would call on the regime to fund or support the new “liberated” Palestine, Iran wpuld be strengthened. A Hamas-led state is Tehran’s proxy. Saudis would see this as an existential threat. Anti-regime Islamist sentiment could flare. Salafists and Islamists would rally around the “resistance” model everywhere having seen the rewards.

So the Saudi monarchy wkuld face increased domestic radicalisation, weakened diplomatic position, and potential internal unrest if not seeing its modernisation efforts reversed or even a complete takeover by clerics positioned as resistance.

Qatar has long backed Hamas politically and financially, but never had to deal with the consequences of Hamas. Once there were wild in the West Bank warring on israel even more boldly, western pressure on Qatar would skyrocket, sanctions, diplomatic isolation, withdrawal of US bases would be threatened. Qatar becomes a pariah or is forced to disown Hamas, leading to proxy conflict between Gulf states.

Egypt shares a border with Gaza and is already battling Islamist insurgents in the Sinai. A Hamas-run Palestine next door is like pouring petrol on that fire. The Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas’s parent group) is banned in Egypt; a Hamas-led state would energise its supporters.

Border control could collapse - weapons, fighters, ideology spill into Egypt and Egypt’s regime (military-led, secular, and anti-Islamist) would face renewed Islamist insurgency at home and chaos at its border. Theres imminent threat of destabilisation of Sisi’s government, and increased Iranian influence on its doorstep.

This move would hand power to Iran and its terror proxies. A Hamas-led Palestine = Iran’s dream scenario, a proxy state directly bordering Israel, armed to the teeth, with state legitimacy.

A terrorist-led “Palestine” kills the credibility of the peace process permanently. It would now become a fight to the death probably and who knows what deathtoll and outcome the world is looking at.

TModerate Arab states (Jordan, UAE, Morocco) are forced to choose: support Palestine or oppose Hamas, dividing the Arab world.

West Bank instability spills into Jordan. Massive Palestinian population in Jordan could become radicalised, with Hamas sympathisers challenging the monarchy. IMO Egypt and Jordan would be at high risk of an imminent islamist coup.

A Hamas takeover of a recognised Palestine would be a strategic catastrophe for the Arab world, especially for regimes trying to modernise, keep Islamism in check, and balance relations with the West.

They may hate Israel, but they fear Hamas far more. Recognition that inadvertently legitimises terror doesn’t just hurt Israel it burns down the regional order the Arab states have spent decades trying to hold together and it would set back the entire region by hundreds of years.

Starmer and Macron are so stupid.

yaaaaay full on racism on mumsnet again!

Editing your post to hide doesn’t help.

You’re judging how starved bodies look compared to adult holocaust photos whilst you sit at home eating butter, eggs and whatever the fuck else.

Have a fucking word with yourself.

What is Islamophobic about that?

This is embarrassingly simplifying.

My god. You’ve bought the propaganda hook line and sinker.

This is the adults during the holocaust.

Seems Islamophobia is fine?