Why are the Arab countries tougher on Hamas than we are in the UK?

Well you may be right I haven’t read their wants re a state, they may be more committed to terrorist aims than legitimacy or disbanding so the people can have it rather.

In which case there’s the problem of how not to have them in power or existence, as you don’t want either. How would you achieve that?

Ahem, Ireland did not support Hitler.

Ireland stayed neutral , on the side of the allies, during the 2nd World War.

This was after Ireland had huge casualties in World War 1, was still denied it's independence despite promises to the contrary for supporting that War effort, which led to a rising in 1916 and ultimately an Irish civil war over the settlement imposed on them by the UK. This was after already approximately 800 years of oppression from a brutal, colonising neighbour, who had also presided over a genocide during the Irish famine, when Irish farmers had to export their food instead of feeding the starving local people, including many family members

Israel are now inflicting a famine on the people of Palestine. This is a fact. They are doing this by blocking humanitarian aid to the oppressed and starving Palestinian people. It is not anti semitic to state this fact. The UN have stated this repeatedly and Netanyahu is wanted by the ICJ for war crimes, genocide & crimes against humanity.

What more do you need to know!?

Starmer has specifically said the opposite of this - that Hamas cannot have any part whatsoever in negotiations toward a Palestinian state.

Life is cheap to these sorts of terrorists.

Hamas do not care about the lives of ordinary Palestinians, hence siting their tunnels under schools, nurseries, hospitals etc. They don’t care. We do! But they don’t.

They believe that to die ‘a martyr’ is an honour.

Same with 911. All airline security prior to that attack was based on the assumption that if you stuck a bomb on a plane you wouldn’t be prepared to fly on that plane yourself. As I say, life is cheap (when you’re a jihadi terrorist).

Afghanistan, North Korea, Russia, some may argue the USA, there’s plenty of nations with questionable leaders. Only one that people refuse to recognise

It is wild to me that ‘discourse’ has managed to make recognising an existing state and people a debatable point. Palestine is a state. There should be no question but instead a bunch of people are dilly dallying about going ‘oh but Hamas’. It’s as bananas as saying Afghanistan shouldn’t be recognised as a state, or North Korea. They are states.

But, again. They are two separate issues. Hamas doesn’t care one jot whether Palestine is recognised as a state or not.

The problem which I think the Arab nations are picking up on is how to remove Hamas, as you say you don’t want them in existence, that’s easy to say harder to do.

That needs pressure somehow. Which in this case takes the form of conditions.

I don’t see how you get them out of existence otherwise, in which case how does it help people to have a gov no one will deal with.

Because I believe them to be two separate issues. I have maintained that, you just seem to take issue with it. I don’t think recognition of a state should be conditional upon who is in power, or be seen to be an endorsement of their current regime.

Here. The post on it being absolute.

If you read what the conditions are from the Arab nations and France you’ll see they do include conditions around Hamas not being in power. It is you that wants an absolute decision without that. You said no conditions.

I don’t see how your version helps.

You’re not making any sense.

I believe the people of Palestine should be recognised. I also believe Hamas shouldn’t be in existence. Happy?

Yes I’m aware, but would it concern you that the people of Gaza would have Hamas in power who had no recognition?

If the Arab nations can use conditions to get the people a gov that other nations do deal with isn’t that better?

Only read the first page of this thread and the responses are so divided and toxic at times.

It is not mutually exclusive to condemn both the October 23 atrocity and the subsequent Israeli genocide. We live in a world where can can say both are wrong.

One caused the deaths of around 1300 people. The other has caused the deaths of 60,000 people. One side we supply arms to. The other side we have proscribed as a terrorist organisation.

It's about time we recognise Palestine as a state. It's about time we stop sending arms to Israel. We should be sanctioning the Israeli government and the Israeli economy. Our government has been silent for too long and I'm pleased theyre starting to say something now. Much more needs to be said and done but it's a start.

It’s not about recognising Hamas. It’s recognising the state of Palestine.

Are you thinking similar to Afghanistan where the Taliban is not recognised? Or if not which country, just to understand what is you’re wanting.

Does a situation where Hamas are in power but not recognised help the people? Surely it’s better for Arab nations to put their removal as a condition so the people can have a government others do recognise?

You honestly think that complaining because people don’t look quite starving enough for you is civil? These people are fucking human beings, it’s always the young and ill etc that starve first because their bodies have less tolerance. And btw the babies that are starving are doing so because their mothers are starving and so aren’t producing milk. Fucking hell.

I believe that the state of Palestine should be recognised. That is not, nor has it ever been, an endorsement of their government. Otherwise we would literally never recognise the statehood of any other country. Ever.

It’s a question, if Hamas are in power what would you want to do?

You said absolute so do you go ahead as stated or are you seeing there is a condition.

I asked if Hamas were in power, that means they part of the state. How could they not be, who would you be dealing with?

btw France and Arab nations have said they can’t be.

That’s ridiculous. Palestine is not Hamas, and recognising the state is not the same thing as endorsing its government. To say that is the same as saying that because the uk recognises the statehood of russiw( they endorse the Russian government!

So you don’t agree with Starmer then and can see an issue? It is conditional.

Also do you mean if Hamas are in power, they should be recognised as legitimate?

But Israel funded Hamas to prevent a two state solution, to prevent Palestinians have their own country.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

The recognition of the Palestinian state should not be conditional. It should be absolute.

See @Voxonearlier post on it not being a condition here, although it is for France.

No they didn’t.
They did send condolences on his death, as they were officially neutral during the war.
Practically though, the Irish government supported the allies.