"Hamas, terrible as they are"....there you go again, with the understatements. Many of these pro Palestine posts are driven by emotion, while always downplaying the real terrorists. There's zero point in engaging.

It's pointless for the West to demand that Hamas will not be allowed to have any part of a future Palestinian state - it will be democratic, the Palestinian people will decide.

Hamas can do a rebrand, become a new political party, all it needs is a new name - Your Party? - and there's a strong likihood that they will win lots of seats in a Palestinian parliament, they'll probably end up as part of a coalition government.

What's the alternative - don't let Palestinians have the vote? Set up a Protectorate - not British this time, that didn't end so well, so Egypt, Iran, Saudi?

I believe a two state solution is the only way forward, but with Hamas so powerful, and Israel acting as such an effective recruiting tool for them, it's going to be far harder than it would have been in previous years.

"Interesting how th adults don’t look like they are starving. During the Nazi persecution of the Jews it was the adults that were all skin and bones."

What are you trying to say here @beelegal? Your post is disgusting.

I think a lot of this is true about the current government of Israel, they are awful in many ways, but the current government of Gaza, Hamas, are so so much worse - they don't even pretend to protect the people of Gaza, they use them as human shields, and they are refusing a ceasfire.

Hamas want to wipe out the Israeli population, the Israel government wants to wipe out Hamas.

Hamas also want to wipe out gay people, establish gender apartheid (can't wipe out women, but can take us out of public life), and to export terrorism in the name of their brand of fundamentalist Islam.

Ireland did not support Hitler during WW2. Ireland was neutral - like Switzerland, Sweden and Portugal.

British people ofen claim that Ireland supported Germany. Perhaps you feel that it would have been natural for Ireland to support an enemy of Britian, seeing as the Irish had to fight a bloody war of independence to get the British out, which had ended just 17 years before WW2. British forces were brutal in Ireland - bombing Dublin city centre, a densly populated area, from a battleship in the Liffey. The Black and Tans were thugs in uniform, who terrorised the Irish population. Britian also attremped to destroy the Irish economy, by starving Ireland of coal once the first level of independence was won, with the Free State - Britian would not accept an Irish Republic, and you still had all those warships.

But no, Ireland didn't support Germany. Allied airmen who bailed out over Ireland were brought up to Northern Ireland, back to the UK, while Germans were intereed.

But I'm sure you knew all this, as British people are so aware of their history.

Ah, bit of an error, I meant 7 October 2023 ofc. But aside from that, which part of the 60k deaths requires sleeping on. You use the word vile but don't apply it to 17 thousand dead children.

(And if you have a pet, you know where you can put it)

What a bizarre and meaningless comment. Maybe have a cup of tea and a nice lie down pet.

24 loves and likes? Well you best take your mandate directly to Starmer and advise him that in your well supported view that 60k dead Palestinians doesn't touch the side of 24/10.

Israel are murderous...higher life? Hamas, terrible as they are, could only dream of been as terrible as Israel and bombing as many hospitals, killing as many children through bombs and starvation, and also doing the same to women, and yes men, cos they are people too.

No it isn’t. Daft.

No one wants Palestinians because they’re terrorist supporters and the other Arab states know trouble when they see it.

I wish the uk would stay out of this - everyone Arab is. They’re not stupid.

Israel is also a terrorist organisation!

Gaza hasn't had an election since 2006.

Hamas is not, and has never been, the government of the West Bank.

So just because Hamas is currently the government of Gaza, doesn't mean it automatically becomes the government of Palestine. We don't even know what land Palestine will consist of yet, let alone how it's political representation will work. There's no reason western states can't completely cut Hamas out of the process - Hamas have destroyed their own legitimacy as a negotiating power, after all.

It's lip service because Starmer wants to be seen to be doing something. Palestine has been completely destroyed and large areas have been taken over by illegal settlers. Israel is also going to annexe it. The current aid drops, which do more harm than good, are for show.

The West needs to stop supplying weapons and sanction Israel.

What people are trying to get at, I think, is that if western states like the UK recognise Palestine as a state, it limits the kinds of actions they can take toward Hamas.

It's not about what Hamas thinks about any of it. It's that it's considered a big deal, even an act of war, to attempt to remove the government of another nation, whether or not they are good or evil or even if they are some kind of dictatorship.

Right now the status of Hamas doesn't protect them in that way, but if they are the official government.

Setting a precedent of simply removing a government they don't like doesn't look good, and they likely don't want to be in a position where they are now at war with a legitimate governing body of a state. It's not likely that desirable even to say, we recognise you as a state, but we won't negotiate with your government.

Or to put it another way, it doesn't do much good for Palestinians to recognise them as a state, and immediately they become a rogue state without normal international relations, or even at war with other states. They would be terribly isolated.

It could also make it less likely that some other group could arise and replace Hamas.

The fact is that as long as Hamas is there, it's going to be very difficult for any real change or progress to happen in Gaza, and that's not just because of Israel, nor because they have no interest in doing anything good for the people of Gaza, it's because no other moderate nation, including the Arab moderate nations, wants to have anything to do with them.

Israel are now a rogue, right wing, fundamentalist state that are run by a dangerous prime minister wanted by the ICJ for war crimes , genocide & crimes against humanity, amongst other things...

They are building illegal settlements in occupied territories for decades now. These clearly contravene prior agreements & peace accords. In the past year Israel has descended into cynical ethnic cleansing, stopping humanitarian aid and causing a famine and untold hardship on the civilian Palestinian people of gaza, the West Bank & Palestine. Their soldiers now randomly shoot starving people simply trying to access food & humanitarian aid that other countries & more civilised societies have sent for the people of Palestine who are under daily siege by the IDF.

Israel through their IDF, are committing genocide, unspeakable war crimes, and crimes against humanity, such as withholding humanitarian aid to a starving civilian population who are now trying to survive in an Israeli maintained famine. This is terrorism on a national scale. Simply scary stuff. These are just some of the facts. The UN have verified all of these & more.

Meanwhile the rest of the world look on posturing & prevaricating over what politician says what. I mean why exactly are the free world, who espouse holding up human rights & UN charterers etc still trading with this right wing rogue state, whose IDF thugs are actively committing genocide & crimes against humanity, led by the absolute tyrant who is Netanyahu !?

Well Hamas murdered Israelies. An easily checkable fact.

Well Israel funded Hamas…. An easily checkable fact.

What core demographic?

Can you explain what you're suggesting here? Hamas are the leaders of Gaza. Should a Palestinian state be recognised, how do you suggest they are removed from power?

A coup?
A civil war?

They already have power in Gaza.

Was that on the French school kids thread?!

May have been me with my rampant Islamophobia 😂

*I’m not actually Islamophobic, I just have a problem with Islamic fundamentalist
**I know other religions do similar things to Islamic fundamentalists and they don’t have exclusive rights on child marriage, honour killings etc

Way not why

Hamas controls ALL the aid into Gaza.

How do you know this? Why are UK reporting Israeli soldiers have shot and killed civilians trying to get food parcels that Israel are supposed to be providing? More than 800 killed trying to access food.

@TruckDiverHamas seem to be celebrating rn on getting closer to what they want.

Can you see a why to get from here to a legitimate Gov in Palestine / Gaza?