Why are the Arab countries tougher on Hamas than we are in the UK?

I do think it’s entirely possible to recognise that Oct 7th was a terrorist attack of the worst kind, over and above anything that could possibly be considered legitimate resistance and also think the same of current Israeli actions in Gaza. Neither is in any way acceptable and both are abhorrent.

@MiloMinderbinder925 the difference is that I’m not minimising, excusing or defending what happened on October 7th.

Neither side have covered themselves in glory. How is shooting children looking for food defending yourself? We won't mention the torture and rape of Palestinians held in prison, including children as it comes across as a race to the bottom.

@Francine84 how the hell is mass rape framed as an occupied country “defending itself” let along the murder and abduction of elderly people, babies, children and young people at a music festival?

But but but. I'm not bothering with the the rest.

By your own logic you must also think the Israeli government is a terorrist regime then? They have systematically hunted down innocent women, children, academics, doctors, journalists, aid workers, paramedics etc etc. Tens of thousands of innocent people slaughtered.

Like I said, what Hamas did on October 7th was horrific. But an occupied nation has a right to defend itself. And if Israel hadn’t been occupying, imprisoning, and oppressing Palestinians for the last 20 years then October 7th wouldn’t have happened.

The tide has turned against the Israeli government now. Especially since they’ve admitted that their plan is to ethnically cleanse Gaza of Palestinians. Why are you still parroting Israel’s propaganda for them?

So what are you doing to help? Charity, volunteering? You believe everything you're seeing, so if you're that moved - understandable - why don't you do something pragmatic. What you don't need to be doing, is not only comparing who's had the biggest fatalities, but speak of Hamas, as though they are just rogue gangsters. There were some despicable barbaric acts carried out, that don't deserve to be downgraded in order to prove a point.

Well said!

Oh I see, so does that mean we should stop recognising the US as a country because it is currently being run by fascists who are stealing people off the streets, locking children up, deporting dissenters, and forcing women and girls to carry babies even if they are the result of rape?

Give me a break. The racism is extraordinarily transparent.

And if you want to ignore the numbers, you crack on too. 60000 though. And with a massive number of people on verge of starvation, the rest of us can't. You've one thing right, it is vulgar.

It's shocking and this will be somebody, who is signalling their virtue, elsewhere. Selective moral outrage - empty vessels.

If you want to observe this conflict by seeing how many numbers of humans have been killed, compared to others, oh please do crack on. The maths "ain't" interesting me. I will leave that start vulgarity to others.

Here we go again .."Hamas are awful" More understating of a vile terrorist regime. The only scum are those, who systematically hunted down jewish mothers, children, babies and the elderly and not only slayed them but tortured them. Tieing a mother and her child together and burning them alive isn't just "awful". Palestinians don't have to like Israelis, they just need to work together to help stop a terrorist regime - of course, that would require wanting it to stop.

Should the Palestinians be liking the Israelis, who have illegally occupied them for decades and are currently waging a genocide against them?

Hamas are awful, but Netanyahu and the IDF are also murderous scum.

Because they are in a better position to see what Hamas are really like, and they are not keen.

Just think about what you’re describing here. Idk how you’ve got to this kind of rhetoric but it’s not good.

The maths ain't mathing for you is it.

Agree

I can't get past you simply minimising 7/10 by using arithmetic. You really do need to stop.

The Palestinians are entitled to their own state; that entitlement isn't dependent upon what Hamas does. As long as it's clear that Hamas have no part to play in the process, can never hold power there and continue to be proscribed as a terrorist organisation, so what?

The difficulty here, @truckdiver, is that until quite recently Hamas enjoyed widespread support among Palestinians

As a PP suggested, all it would take is the pretence of a "rebrand" and we could easily find the same situation, only this time with them heavily represented in any new state

Ok so Hamas are terrible as I said.
No, make that that Hamas are very VERY terrible. But the killing they carried out on the 7th October is at about 2% of what Israel has returned on the population of Palestine. Hamas, terrible as they are, could only dream of been as terrible as Israel and bombing as many hospitals, killing as many children through bombs and starvation, and also doing the same to women and men.
And let's not pretend 7th October 2023 was the beginning.

Even if Hamas had returned the hostages, what makes you think that Israel would stop what they are currently doing to Gaza? Israel has been trying to take over the country for decades one piece at a time.

Personally I think that both Hamas and the Israeli government need to be outed before any meaningful peace deal can be done.

I am so sick of this view that all Jews are pro civilian abuse and anyone denying that is antisemitic. It is such a vile and antisemitic view to hold.

Canada has firmer conditions on Palestine.

Some strong reactions from Emily and other hostages over Starmer’s statement. Poor people seeing Hamas happy over what he’s decided.

"Stay out of this" by not continuing to provide arms and other support to one side, you mean? Glad to hear to agree with the protesters.