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AIBU?

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Original poster

Sorry it's another cash in hand job one

62 replies

wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 14:29

Not a bashing thread, just a miserable situation and want to know what could happen if it gets reported. (Yes one really is naively loose lipped about it all.)

A disabled friend's carer is topping up their carers allowance with an unskilled cash in hand job because it is all they can get.
Not stopping them providing 35 hrs+ care but affects when they can provide it. They sometimes skimp a couple of days then do a 10 hour blitz to catch up washing etc.

It's really obvious to others that friend is allowing the care to be arranged around the carers availability, not the actual care needs. (others are picking up the slack and turning a blind eye as they cant do 35+ hours of care needs)

Friend says it's still much better than having agency carers and any care was arranged round their needs too. (Got up at midday, put to bed in the afternoon, often poor care, didn't care, didn't come, no language at all, moldy washing etc)

The carer is not that good and cant easily get work. Has obvious MH problems.
The cash in hand job is made for them. It's flexible and low standards.
Not many hours but paying almost 3 times the CA earnings.

They didn't cope on UC and got sanctioned out. They want to work, but few want them. (normally get let go in days)
They get CA and PIP. Unlikely either would be affected if they could declare job.

But they cant (they did ask employer if they could be legal) and can't find anything else. They aren't rolling in it. Rent and CT debts mount up, then they sub let their room out to pay it off.

If the job was legal they'd pay around £550 a year tax and NI on total earnings as the carers allowance gets taxed too. (they'd be within CA rules)

I've tried to help both but don't see what can be done. So the AIBU is to do nothing about a sad comparatively low level fraud.?

But what I'd really like to get out of the thread is to know about:

What could or would happen to the carer if they get caught? (apart from a breakdown)

Could anything happen to friend for knowing and accommodating the carer's illegal job hours as the CA is awarded for her care? (apart from loosing carer)

OP posts:
Original poster
wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 21:41

@soupyspoon It isn't possible. The person employing them has been clear.
Its this amount of money for this amount of time. Simple task list.
Come in, do them. Don't need to speak or make eye contact. Go away until next shift.
Culture seems to be: don't give me problems, you don't get problems
The job isn't on any books, and there is no tax or NI paid either end.

If they weren't getting CA the situation would be quite simple apart from maybe risking getting prosecuted for not paying tax and NI. I know the employer could get prosecuted by HMRC. I don't know if workers can be.
It sounds like from what @Katemax82 said, they just had to pay the CA back, for earning over the limit, not prosecution, but I'm assuming CA knew they had a job, and they just earned too much.. I'm beginning to hope that might be the same with HMRC over the tax and NI, but don't know if there are penalties for not declaring their job in the first place, or for failing to declare a change of circumstances to PIP. (they asked about it theoretically, but didn't declare it as the employer wont put them on the books)

OP posts:
Doopdoopdeedoo · 29/07/2025 21:33

So help them to set up something like a Nest pension and set up a DD for £40 a month.

Doopdoopdeedoo · 29/07/2025 21:32

They can put money into a pension. If they get £4 over the allowance, then they could legitimately put £8/week into a pension and then they'd be fine.

Original poster
wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 21:20

soupyspoon · 29/07/2025 21:08

The person being cared for is not doing anything 'wrong' at all

The carer, well Im not sure, are you saying there is an earnings limit over which someone cant get carers allowance? and the carer earns over this? If so, what happens if they earn a few quid over, does their carers allownace get cut completely or does it just go down a bit?
Is the carer able to do just a couple fewer hours?

Thank you for the person being paid for info.

Carer can't do less hours or be paid slightly less.
Should be declaring job to CA.
Job is illegal in tax and NI terms, it doesn't exist.
Also because of this undeclared to CA breaking their rules, and over the allowed earnings limit by just £4 per week.
CA is literally cut completely and all must be returned if only 1p over, according to their letter. (I have been shown this letter. Hard to believe but definitely correct)
They become ineligible for all the CA at just 1p over!

OP posts:
soupyspoon · 29/07/2025 21:17

ARichtGoodDram · 29/07/2025 21:11

If they earn so much as 50p over the £196 a week carers allowance stops.

Show quote history

Disgraceful, its a pittance anyway, I never know how it continues to be a legal amount given its meant to represent 35 hours care but is nowhere near the amount for NMW of 35 hours.

I would say to carer, just cut half hour out of their working week, then they'll be under the limit.

ARichtGoodDram · 29/07/2025 21:11

soupyspoon · 29/07/2025 21:08

The person being cared for is not doing anything 'wrong' at all

The carer, well Im not sure, are you saying there is an earnings limit over which someone cant get carers allowance? and the carer earns over this? If so, what happens if they earn a few quid over, does their carers allownace get cut completely or does it just go down a bit?
Is the carer able to do just a couple fewer hours?

If they earn so much as 50p over the £196 a week carers allowance stops.

Original poster
wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 21:09

Would gift aid by the carer mean it wasn't over the earnings limit? Another thing I don't know much about.
They are a good person just don't do anything that well. If there was a way to pay the tax and NI without getting in trouble, I think they'd be happy do it.

OP posts:
soupyspoon · 29/07/2025 21:08

The person being cared for is not doing anything 'wrong' at all

The carer, well Im not sure, are you saying there is an earnings limit over which someone cant get carers allowance? and the carer earns over this? If so, what happens if they earn a few quid over, does their carers allownace get cut completely or does it just go down a bit?
Is the carer able to do just a couple fewer hours?

Original poster
wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 21:03

@soupyspoon I used 'cash in hand' but maybe I should be saying 'not on the books' not paying tax or NI. No normal protections of a normal job. Regular casual untaxed labor.
Lots of people in the news for things that have been reported.
I assume the three !!! means that sounds ridiculous, and I don't need to worry about them being reported for anything, only the carers position.
Maybe the carer is right that only the employer is doing any wrong.

OP posts:
RosesAndHellebores · 29/07/2025 20:55

Can they gift aid £4 pw to take their earnings under the threshold.

They sound pretty good to me.

Original poster
wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 20:53

@yeesh Ordinary carers allowance, not direct payments. They claim carers allowance and are allowed to earn up to £196 as well pw.
But, the job isn't on the books, so they aren't declaring it at all, as well as it being a few pounds over the amount (which could have been dealt with, if the employer would put them on the books) and thy are being very indiscreet.

The person they are caring for is living round the carers job needs to make it possible as carer is struggling managing both. They also aren't being discreet. (but maybe they don't need to be)

OP posts:
soupyspoon · 29/07/2025 20:49

wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 20:46

I'M not reporting anything. I'm worried someone will report the carer for having a cash in hand job and the person cared for, for aiding it by arranging their care around it.

Show quote history

Who reports people these days for having a cash in hand job? Working cash in hand means what exactly?

My window cleaner and chimney sweep only take cash, theyre both businesses

And no, no one is going to take action against the caree for 'aiding' their carer to have another job by arranging their care needs around their carers availability!!!

Original poster
wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 20:46

soupyspoon · 29/07/2025 20:40

Same here, what is the issue here, what would you be reporting OP?

Show quote history

I'M not reporting anything. I'm worried someone will report the carer for having a cash in hand job and the person cared for, for aiding it by arranging their care around it.

OP posts:
yeesh · 29/07/2025 20:42

Are they claiming carers allowance or are they being paid to provide care via direct payments? None of what you have said is how carers allowance works and lots of people have carers as well as an ‘unpaid carer’ claiming carers allowance.

soupyspoon · 29/07/2025 20:40

Thistooshallpsss · 29/07/2025 18:46

Are you worried that the carer is claiming carers allowance but earning too much in another job? Ie more than £195 per week?I can’t quite understand the problem

Same here, what is the issue here, what would you be reporting OP?

Original poster
wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 20:29

@Katemax82 Thank you, that's helpful.. Though the carer would have no way to pay it back at the moment.

OP posts:
Original poster
wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 20:26

@SleepyRedPanda The last thing I'm doing is reporting them! I'm trying to convince them not to be in a position someone does! I think the fraud is small in the big scheme of things, but the penalties could be big.

OP posts:
SleepyRedPanda · 29/07/2025 20:21

Your friend wants this carer and has said that. Reporting them runs the risk of them no longer being your friend. Snitches are rarely liked even when it’s to do with fraud.

Katemax82 · 29/07/2025 20:19

What happens if you get found out earning too much for carers allowance is it will be stopped and you will owe hmrc what you claimed while not entitled to it. You can pay it in installments (i owed about 1600 they take £140 off my UC)
however i dont know how it would work regarding not paying tax..best look into that separately

Original poster
wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 20:13

@beetr00 I may have things wrong I believe they are allowed to earn up £196, and the CA pw before tax and NI. The PIP amount is irrelevant (and the work is rare in being tolerant of their problems)
But because they are four pounds over the £196 they would have to become self employed and claim back expenses they have. (Now know the employer wont take them on the books anyway)

@AllotmentHappy I don't want them reported, I'm worried they will be and wont be ok if they are, and want them to understand what could happen to them.

@ARichtGoodDram £200 pw, and guessed the CA at £80pw, so it's a total income of £14,500 -12,570 personal allowance leaving tax to pay on £1990 and NI which I estimated at £398 tax and £159 Ni so roughly £550 (actually £557)

@Branleuse Agree though think its around £80 so still nothing for 35+hours.
But I know that if the carer go's on holiday for a weekend they have to report it as a break in caring, and have to say who will cover, so I'm assuming the carer is expected to be there every day? Maybe that's wrong and it's only if they are on holiday there is an issue, rather than two three days doing something else then making up time the rest of the week.

OP posts:
Branleuse · 29/07/2025 19:21

Someone on carers allowance gets about £60 a week. It isnt a care job.
You cannot liken this to a paid carer from an agency.

ARichtGoodDram · 29/07/2025 19:07

wheredoesitend · 29/07/2025 15:19

@ARichtGoodDram They are over by only four pounds per week, less than the expenses they have for consumables they have to buy to do the work.

I have been trying to help them to see if they could do what they are doing legally.

I took the idea it wouldn't change their CA on if they could be legal they could be self employed and legally offset those expenses and be at the right amount.

They talked to PIP about it theoretically, and got told if they where to get that level of work it would be encouraged not penalized.

Pip isn't affected by income in any way. The only way a job would affect their pip would be if it contradicted what's on their form. It's not income related.

When you say they're over by £4 a week do you mean they earn £200 a week cash in hand? That's £10400 a year. They'd pay around £2200 a year tax and NI on that as including their carers they'd have a taxable income of £20592

AllotmentHappy · 29/07/2025 18:58

If its cash in hand, the only way they will find out if its reported to DWP. Leave it alone.

beetr00 · 29/07/2025 18:54
  • did you calculate that they can earn CA, PIP and also earn up to £196 or less a week after tax, National Insurance and expenses, without it impacting either @wheredoesitend ?

https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/eligibility

Thistooshallpsss · 29/07/2025 18:46

Are you worried that the carer is claiming carers allowance but earning too much in another job? Ie more than £195 per week?I can’t quite understand the problem

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