Sorry it's another cash in hand job one

Is the job permanent? Is there any time off? Because if someone reported it, which is unlikely in itself, then their income over the time might well average out to an amount under the threshold.

Alternatively, could the carer declare themselves self employed and declare the income that way? They don't have to give details about their clients or have the paperwork, the company paying out would be responsible for their end of that. To HMRC there would be a tax return at the end of the year with money in and out.

In theory the person could provide

35 hours of care

35 to 40 hours of paid work

But would not be entitled to claim carers allowance

I expect many people do this as part of their normal life

This is how I look at it

A carer is supposed to provide 35 hours care per week & receives care allowance & National Insurance contributions are paid for the carer

The sane carer can work on top of doing the care & earn up to £196 per week & receive carers allowance
Example
£196÷£12=16 hours of work

Total hours
35+16=51 hours (care & work)

We all know that some carers provide more than 35 hours of care per week

The carer could also work more than 16 hours, but the Government is saying in that case, they will not pay carers allowance.
Work would include paying National Insurance & tax

Well I guess they're doing what they can to get by. If they're not defrauding the UC then there's worse crimes on earth than doing a cash in hand job. It's sad definitely. But I don't really see what you or anyone else can do to help. I'm glad you don't want to get them in trouble. I think that would be quite cruel.

No, as OP has said, as soon as you earn 1p over the earnings limit you lose the whole lot. It is very unfair. I think the government has pledged to look into it.

@wheredoesitend I think you need to keep out of it. The only thing you can realistically do is report to DWP. Do you really want to do that for the sake of a person being a few quid over the CA earnings limit? The job is cash in hand, so very unlikely DWP will find out.

I can't see any impact on the person receiving care.
For the person not paying tax, well I guess there could be sanctions if they were found out. I guess the biggest question is, is the employer likely to get caught? Do they employ lots of people on the same basis? In the real world lots of people work cash in hand.
I know you have no intention of making it worse. Is there any scope at all to tell her to shut her mouth?

PIP is not means tested

That's interesting about CA stopping completely, I thought it reduced £ for £ on earnings but am probably out of date

I think you probably are catastrophising a bit.

Re the carers allowance - care is happening (more than in many cases I've seen!) so I wouldn't worry too much, if earnings were being declared it would potentially reduce a bit.

Re. the cash in hand job, even if it was reported I doubt anything would get actioned due to the low amounts involved

I hope I'm wrong but think their PIP would be suspended for not telling them too, They wouldn't have any income to live or pay back with

They only have to inform pip if their health condition has changed.

The job would only impact PIP if it contradicted their form.

So my DD has gone from one wfh role to another - no need to inform them.
If she suddenly became a postie after her form said she cannot safely and reliably go out alone then she'd have to inform them about the change in condition

Well definitely the person being cared for isn’t doing anything wrong here, there is no issue here and if they’re happier with this arrangement than what they had before then I wouldn’t worry about that side of it.

The carer is of course knowingly being paid off the books illegally and yes could face consequences if this were reported. It looks like realistically the risk is getting fined and having to repay any benefits that have been illegally claimed such as the CA (don’t think the PIP would be an issue as it’s not means tested anyway). They may also lose the right to access certain benefits in future. Technically there is a risk of imprisonment but in reality for something like this sort of low level issue it seems highly unlikely to happen. The employer would definitely be in significantly more hot water, but you’re right that potentially being fined and having to repay benefits would leave the carer in serious financial difficulties.

Only she can decide if it’s a risk worth taking and it sounds like for her she feels it is, so I think I’d stay out of it. I do get why it leaves you feeling anxious as someone who may need to pick up the pieces if it ends badly though. Especially if this person is not discreet. I also personally would find this hard as I dislike dishonesty generally and would also be anxious about the potential consequences always waiting for the other shoe to drop. But there are lots of people who do this day-in day-out without worrying about it in the slightest and the reality is that it’s such a low level sort of offence nobody is likely to be all that interested unless they’re really forced to take an interest. So you probably are overestimating the actual risks of this situation. It’s a shame she can’t find a legal job doing the same thing elsewhere?

There has been a lot of publicity about carers allowance... When a carer inadvertently has gone over the earnings limit... Sometimes by only a couple of pounds averaged out over months..

It's a cliff edge benefit.... They are then made to pay back ALL the carers allowance... Not just the couple of pounds...

https://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/financial-support/carer-s-allowance/carer-s-allowance-and-overpayments/

And the latter section of this article...:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13296543/DWP-threatens-unpaid-carers-prosecution-minor-breaches-benefits-rules-fraudster-gang.html

a few thoughts...

if they're not 'on the books' i don't see how they could set up gift aid from their wages.

similarly, any pension couldn't be attached to their workplace/ work.

if someone is not officially employed, or receiving benefits for being unemployed, they can still make voluntary NI payments to ensure they keep their full state pension eligibility. so perhaps they could do this, thereby bringing their earnings back under the £196 threshold?

alternatively, would it be impossible to say to the employer "please pay me £196 a week, instead of £200" - preferably negotiating to do half an hour less than they do now, but even working the same hours as now, this would be worth doing as it minimises the risk of them losing/ being forced to 'pay back' any carers' allowance money (which seems to happen to loads of people whose earnings go over by pence).

most dodgy employers would be very happy to pay their undocumented employees even less, so i don't get why they wouldn't agree to this request.

Get person to pay into a personal SIPP pension ?

I know you're trying to help them, but it doesn't sound likely that the employer will let them become a proper employee.

And if it's a job that means they'd be an employee and fit the terms of that then they can't just be self employed because they want to be. There's rules around that precisely to stop dodgy employers avoiding the tax and NI contributions.

A carer does not have to live with the person that they care for

In my case I was earning below the threshold then got a £5 and hour payrise which took me over, but being stupid I kept quiet about it but got found out, which is probably more easy for hmrc as they can just check your taxable earnings

https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/if-youre-working-

The rate the Government pay should be higher

Carers allowance is £83 per week
Could anyone live on that alone ???
Carers are allowed to work & earn up to £196 per week, without loosing the carer allowance

There are many Carers who cannot work & may live in poverty