To think that there is no hope here?

She absolutely could. Earning money is not the same as being paid.

No wonder @Taxed didn't want to share their source!

Don't let facts get in the way of a good moan!! 😂

Well said, @Iclyn.

Im so sorry you’re in that position though - I am too, but fortunately have my DH’s (private) pension to help out with the costs of living.
Best wishes to you for a decent day today x

I don't think OP would be in the top 1% of earners if she had spent her working life sitting on her backside waiting for everything to come to her!!

The biggest issue is the fact that full time work for far too many people doesn’t provide them with enough money to pay all their bills or have a decent enough standard of living. So the government tops up people’s wages with tax credits. Which is madness.

I don’t blame anyone for claiming what they can but until there is a proper living wage, and yes more for people living in the SE, I don’t see how things will ever change. But then you have businesses claiming they can’t possibly afford to pay any one more than a measly £12 an hour, which is approx £2000 a month. Which would have been fine 10 or 15 years ago but it definitely isn’t now. Unless you live in a very cheap part of the country.

So until work pays, there is little motivation to increase hours or move up the career ladder. Because as soon as you get a decent income it’s heavily taxed so people try to avoid falling into the high income tax bracket. And therefore relying on the government to fill the gaps is the easier option.

We are a country full of people that expect government help.. I think it’s an important part of civil society but I also think there is a danger of dependency and an expectation that others should have to be the ones to bear the brunt of any redress that’s needed, and this is usually anyone but me. As we saw with the push back about winter fuel and Pip.

I vote that you ABU

I agree that we have too many people relying on the state, but I also think that discrepancy between the highest and the lowest earners is obscene. Of course people should be rewarded for doing well, but not to that degree. Their high wages often come at the expense of exploiting lower paid workers, many of whom work very hard for low wages. Worlds tiniest violin for the 1%.

I think you are focusing on the wrong thing here, OP. The real stat to focus on is the proportion of GDP spent on social security. Interestingly, many European countries with a higher standing of living than us - eg the Nordic countries - spend more of their GDP on social security than we do. They are prepared to pay more in tax to have better public services available to all.

There are comparatively few people in any country who are 'net contributors' as you put it, and the chances are that those who are net contributors are benefitting from low paid workers or other types of exploitation somewhere along the line. If you work for a multinational or derive your income/wealth from the stock market, property, financial services, manufacturing etc, it won't take long to find the exploitation you are benefitting from, even if you consider that your work is 'clean'. Likewise, if you are lucky enough to enjoy inherited wealth/property, how exactly was that acquired?

Yes, there are undoubtedly some people in the UK who are exploiting the system but the fact is that humans live in societies and that works through pooling resources, which is modern terms means having a social security system.

UK benefits are actually quite low in the grand scheme of things.

The real issue is how we raise tax, in my opinion. Taxing earned income places and undue burden on salaried people. We should be looking at taxes on wealth and property, including some sort of land value tax which could have a transformative effect on our urban and rural areas.

Yes this "stat" includes ALL public sector workers including teachers, doctors, infrastructure staff, as well as the entirety of the higher education sector which is pretty much all privatised. It's absolute nonsense.

No I know, but the ONS uses live births per woman to calculate the birth rate because it’s easier and more reliable than counting men’s children.

You are being unreasonable by posting this without checking the facts. The 52.1% of adults reliant on the state for their livelihood includes people who work in the public sector! They are reliant in the state because the state is their employer! It also includes Higher Education students and people employed by a Higher Education institution.

Women AND men not spending their lives having kids. Women don’t have children alone.

Yes, it is unusual that taxed has so much time to be on MN.

I also have always been a net contributor.

However, I see things very differently from you. Our current situation is a result of the quality of education state school students achieve, a knock on effect of the lack of money put into education. It is affected by big business being allowed to pay full-time employees a non-living wage. It was hugely damaged by the destruction of industry by Thatcher.

The people you're attacking @Taxed, are the victims of this system which tries to keep the poor, poor. If we want a high earning work-force they need to be better educated, apprenticeships need to return in force for non-academic individuals, wages need to be raised to a level where working full-time supports us.

By all means jump ship. Leave the poor to sink by hoarding what you have for you and yours. Just a continuation of the me-me-me of the Tories.

It's only really the top 10% who put in more than they receive. The next 10% are about break-even, and the bottom 80% get more out. That's just the nature of how finances are spread in the UK right now.

But I hear lots of uninformed talk, often from well-informed people, that the government is about to means-test the state pension, or add further charges to the NHS. I see no evidence that either will happen any time soon.

I do agree that we are far too aggressive in taxing those with earnings above £100,000, and that is causing real harm to the economy and not just to higher earners (people doing things like cutting hours to avoid that place, or using other ways to cut taxable incomes). But who in politics wants to stand up and say they are helping those on six figure salaries? (even though it would likely help everyone, in time).

OP has dodged the questions each time I have pointed this out. It’s too inconvenient to admit that old people and women not spending their lives having kids are the biggest factors contributing to what she has identified as the major problem facing the country.

Don't worry Reform will get in soon and move us back towards being a small state economy. That will get all the feckless off their arses and back into work. It's amazing how many people who couldn't possibly work will suddenly find themselves able to when it is that or starve.

If this is a joke it’s really not funny. And if it’s not then you need to seriously re think this plan .

Ok I tried to research the source of this figure and found this:

”The Adam Smith Institute (ASI) found that 52.1 per cent of British adults are recipients of universal credit, a state pension, work in the public sector, are students or higher education staff.”

https://politicsuk.com/majority-of-brits-reliant-on-the-state-for-income/

Which paints a different picture.

OP’s headline seems to suggest they are all benefit claimants but I cannot see how pensioners (who have contributed), higher education staff and students should be counted there.

@Taxed I am always amazed at these 'high earners' who seem to have the time and inclination to post so extensively on MN.

You started it, you do the work.

What on earth makes you think the OP is working hard?

Again, what is your solution? Kill off old people?

Changing demographics is a problem, but not an easy one to fix.

Totally agree with you, OP. I applaud your hard work and striving for a comfortable life for you and your family. Labour are all about the politics of envy and jealousy and trying to make everybody the same. This country cannot go on the way it is - I particularly worry that some of the up and coming generation do not seem to have any kind of work ethic or commitment to work and their colleagues - just look at how often people on here are encouraged to take a sick day when there is nothing wrong with them!