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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that there is no hope here?

956 replies

Taxed · 28/07/2025 07:36

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

OP posts:
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Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:18

JHound · 28/07/2025 10:16

The public sector pays taxes and UC which subsidises the private sector.

If you got rid of the private sector, what do you think would happen to all the public sector services that people provide?

Actually come to think of it we have a few examples in history of that happening.

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:17

echt · 28/07/2025 10:15

Using education as an example, the public sector generates wealth.

Not one you would appear to acknowledge, but there it is.

It doesn't generate actual money though. The public sector (wages etc) s paid for by the private sector. So needs to live within it's means or at least within the amount of wealth that the private sector can generate.

LemondrizzleShark · 28/07/2025 10:17

Taxation funds public services. By definition.

JHound · 28/07/2025 10:16

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:13

Yes but the private sector pays for the public sector.

The public sector pays taxes and UC which subsidises the private sector.

Shallwedance2000 · 28/07/2025 10:16

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:11

The private sector workers fund them though. TBF.

Yes and the public service workers help the country function that in turn helps the private workers do their jobs.

Private workers don’t live in isolation and need society just as much as anyone else. They are not special money making people who are superior to public service workers.

echt · 28/07/2025 10:16

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:15

It doesn't generate wealth though. It spends wealth.

To generate future wealth.

RoseaPlena · 28/07/2025 10:16

Figures about the proportion of people who are net contributors are pretty meaningless without a breakdown by age. The average person is far more likely to be a net contributor at working age (when they have a higher income and so pay less tax, and less likely to have significant health issues) and far less likely in old age (when they will likely have a lower income and greater need for healthcare and other services.

Feeling frustrated about being a net contributor at age 49 therefore misses the point - most people at that age will be. Similarly the vast majority of the very elderly will be recipients, not because they're work-shy bastards but because these figures are a snapshot of contributing/receiving at a given point in time. Most of us will have points in life when we are net contributors and points in life when we are net recipients. That goes for higher earners as well (and things like PMI are misleading here- you're far more likely to have this when you are working age which is also the point at which you're least likely to need it. Not many 90yos in BUPA.)

All of that said, the UK does have substantial problems with productivity and reliance on state support among working age people, which need to be addressed (especially given the birth rate and ageing population). They're just not really captured in OP's figures.

echt · 28/07/2025 10:15

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:14

Yes but the public sector does not generate wealth. The private sector does.

I'm not complaining about it btw. Just trying to work out the 52%.

Edited

Using education as an example, the public sector generates wealth.

Not one you would appear to acknowledge, but there it is.

CommissarySushi · 28/07/2025 10:15

GeorgeCrabtreesAuntBegonia · 28/07/2025 10:13

Unless you know the posters circumstances your answer is spectacularly clueless - and rather crass, if I’m honest.

I think her answer was crass too 🤷‍♀️

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:15

echt · 28/07/2025 10:14

And the public sector pays tax too.

It doesn't generate wealth though. It spends wealth.

echt · 28/07/2025 10:14

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:13

Yes but the private sector pays for the public sector.

And the public sector pays tax too.

PandoraSocks · 28/07/2025 10:14

PistachioTiramisu · 28/07/2025 10:06

I don't think OP would be in the top 1% of earners if she had spent her working life sitting on her backside waiting for everything to come to her!!

Well OP is sitting on his/her backside posting lies on SM. Perhaps that pays well?

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:14

JHound · 28/07/2025 10:12

Public sector workers pay tax.

And the private sector benefits from much of their labour (for example we employ graduates.)

The private sector is also subsidised in the form of universal credits so the public sector subsidises low wages in the private sector.

Edited

Yes but the public sector does not generate wealth. The private sector does.

I'm not complaining about it btw. Just trying to work out the 52%.

LemondrizzleShark · 28/07/2025 10:13

I knew it would be the Adam Smith stats that included all public sector workers 🤣

OP, if you had posted “shall we abolish the NHS and kill off pensioners?” you would have had your arse handed to you.

GeorgeCrabtreesAuntBegonia · 28/07/2025 10:13

CommissarySushi · 28/07/2025 08:00

😂 clueless

Edited

Unless you know the posters circumstances your answer is spectacularly clueless - and rather crass, if I’m honest.

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:13

echt · 28/07/2025 10:12

And benefits by their work.

Yes but the private sector pays for the public sector.

NotEnoughKnittingTime · 28/07/2025 10:13

How many more of these benefit bashing threads are we going to get?

JHound · 28/07/2025 10:12

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:11

The private sector workers fund them though. TBF.

Public sector workers pay tax.

And the private sector benefits from much of their labour (for example we employ graduates.)

The private sector is also subsidised in the form of universal credits so the public sector subsidises low wages in the private sector.

echt · 28/07/2025 10:12

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:11

The private sector workers fund them though. TBF.

And benefits by their work.

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:12

Leopardprintisaneutral · 28/07/2025 10:10

'Centre Right' 🙄

Well, not extreme right is what I mean! But not left wing.

PandoraSocks · 28/07/2025 10:11

Taxed · 28/07/2025 09:59

No, I will not break them down for you. Go do your research. If that means I lose credibility, then so be it. It's incumbent upon all of us to know what is happening to our country.

The ONS is very accessible and the Adams Smith Institute is likewise very easy to find and their report has been out for ages.

Oh, we know why you won't break the stats down. Because doing so will demonstrate you are peddling bullshit.

JHound · 28/07/2025 10:11

AlertCat · 28/07/2025 10:06

No I know, but the ONS uses live births per woman to calculate the birth rate because it’s easier and more reliable than counting men’s children.

I am aware but the way we speak about it matters.
The birth rate shows men and women are not spending their lives having children.

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 10:11

SwimBikeRunBake · 28/07/2025 10:05

You are being unreasonable by posting this without checking the facts. The 52.1% of adults reliant on the state for their livelihood includes people who work in the public sector! They are reliant in the state because the state is their employer! It also includes Higher Education students and people employed by a Higher Education institution.

Edited

The private sector workers fund them though. TBF.

Leopardprintisaneutral · 28/07/2025 10:10

Quirkswork · 28/07/2025 08:03

I agree. There are far too many people receiving state handouts for a myriad of reasons. But it is unsustainable unfortunately and, if we go bust, things will have to change. The government should get on with starting the process of reducing spending now. Starting with the triple lock pensions.

As regard people hating those that want to do well and penalising them for it, that's the Labour politics of envy. I pray that the Conservatives or Reform or someone(!) sorts themselves out by 2029 so we have a centre right alternative to this awful situation.

'Centre Right' 🙄

MerylSqueak · 28/07/2025 10:10

I was talking to a group of people lately, some of whom were from South American countries and I was bemoaning something similar. They pointed out to me the massive rise in social insecurity and particularly crime in countries where there is no safety net. If we had a harsher system, you wouldn't necessarily get what you want. There may be some lazy people who want to play the system. They wouldn't automatically become net contributors if the system changed.

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