To think that there is no hope here?

So to prevent future elderly people from losing a pension, you would have all the pensioners within the 52% currently go back to work or...? What exactly do you want to do? Have you got jobs people can go to? Would you rather euthanise them for the greater good?

@Taxed Another way of looking at the country is that it is pure mismanagement which has brought it to the state it is in. Terrible issues around education, literacy, maths competence for decades. Terrible culture of allowing kids to bring themselves up unsupervised for decades in many social groups in the UK. Terrible government policies, involving high policing in some respects but bringing with it no safety or security as other areas are not policed or well managed at all. All these things could be turned around with competent attention and it is people like you who could do this. Many if not most places are facing similar difficulties so if you moved you would probably find yourself similarly frustrated. Sorry to sound bleak! Bleak but at the same time positive about what could be done

So where are you going to go?

USA? Happy to see you enjoy the Trump lifestyle but you’ll pay a fortune for healthcare in premiums and co-pays that you don’t pay here.
Canada? They pay higher tax and it’s much colder.
Australia? Living round the edge of a scalding desert with men thinking women should be grateful.
South Africa? Loads of white people trying to leave, but I’m sure it will be fine for you.
Dubai? Really hot, nothing to do.
Europe? Great if you speak the language but much higher taxes.

People generally don’t leave the UK for long. We have terrific weather, free healthcare though you may have to wait, tolerance of different cultures, fantastic arts in terms of theatre, music, literary and music festivals, great science and engineering companies and a flourishing sarcastic sense of humour.

If you leave, you’ll be back. And if you’re not back, we’re grateful you’re not inflicting your presence on those of us who believe in this country and its people.

There are roughly 37 million people that are of working age in the UK. That's why the percentage of those with state support seems so high (children's free prescriptions/student council tax breaks etc). It doesn't mean we're a nation of scroungers. It means we have lots of young people and lots of elderly people.

Is the OP suggesting we widen the working age range and bring back child labour?

Statistics can be used to prove many things, but this post feels like a dog whistle.

How do other counties compare in these two figures? And how do they achieve this?
Genuinely wondering if any are better when you weigh up things like having to pay for health care. Eg. USA
Or having no safety net - so people just die on the streets.

What countries have a better tax regime for the uber rich that UK?

62.9% of UK population is working age, then within that group are working parents and the working poor. Only 3.4% of WA claim unemployment benefits.

Then where will you go?

I'm a big fan of emigrating for a bit in your 20s but unless you have a very specific and in demand set of skills most counties do not want the over 30-35s, and will tax you just as much

No you're not getting it.

You just keep complaining in an incredibly vague fashion.

If you feel 23% of the population being pensioners is not an issue then tell us which of the other groups within the 52% you feel we should be working to minimise? If you said something practical like you felt we should be cutting down on public sector workers, reducing the number of students or reducing the 11% of people of Universal Credit you'd have a much clearer argument.

I'm not saying you're wrong, or that this isn't a problem or sustainable. But you seem uninterested in the actual specifics of the 52% and just want to complain endlessly

Exactly right.

I worked full time and still needed UC top ups to pay my rent (studio flat, all bills included apart from TV licence,) but it was cheaper than renting somewhere and paying separately for water, gas/electric, council tax and internet, and it was furnished. I mean, some of us need to work in lowly jobs like retail, right? I have no qualifications beyond GCSEs.

I’m not sure what you are alluding to here? Long working hours?

He's back because he's getting old and he wants to die here. Everyone comes home eventually. and he needs to sort out the mess of his farms now he's liable to IHT.

what a numpty !! what do you mean by .. why does she feel the need to keep all her earnings to herself. What entitlement.

This is such a good point. My DC has chosen a profession which isn’t the best paid but still very competitive. We spoke with them extensively about their expectations in life. Affordability. They are surrounded by people that are SO much richer than them too but they also appreciate what they do have. They have found activities at Uni they can afford and enjoy. They genuinely try to enjoy their life with the resources available to them.

OP is just trying to elevate herself in a way that puts everyone else down. OP does this in order to make out living in another ‘fairy tale’ country (which loads of us have managed to do without such theatricals) will suddenly solve her doubtful net contributor status. Again, I doubt OP will ever move out of the UK.

Is he? I didn't know that. Why?

OP I'm sorry you're getting such a rough time (kind of proves the point of your post though...).

Lots of people saying the grass isn't always greener and everywhere has it's issues. That's true. I moved to Australia from the UK 5 years ago. London was wearing us down. House prices are through the roof, groceries and utilities are expensive, everyone has their gripes. But it's clean, it's safe and I can get a GP appointment same day (not free, about £20 - obviously it is free for pensioners, kids and those on benefits). Every child gets a place at their nearest school. The councils are always upgrading roads, creating tidal pools, building playparks and new BBQ facilities and shower blocks near the playing fields and no one burns them down.

No where is perfect but this idea that everywhere else in the world is as bad as the UK is nonsense. It's not a race to the bottom.

Tbf if the pp is in that world (lecturing maybe) I can see why together higher taxes impacting behaviour is still a funny thing. Don’t get tax policy from that kind of thinking.

The (wishful consequences of) the Lagfer Curve have long been discredited by serious economists, even within the undergraduate curriculum. Following its principles did Ronald Reagan no good. That came later.

Many agree that the raise in NI was a mistake. However, the article you link gives no serious data about people leaving the country.

@vodkaredbullgirl nailed it: most people have nowhere more compelling to go. Unless you have family ties somewhere else or are experiencing serious prejudice here, it’s mostly hot air. A few will always have good reasons to leave.

Even James Dyson is back.

You need to read about 9-9-6 and China then. And see what's going on there. Like really really read about it. The west is most definitely in decline.

The middle class is being eroded everywhere.

Wait until AI kicks in.

We're back to surfdom, all of us, except the 0.001%

Being a millionaire now is just being middle class, living in a quiet suburb, minding your own business.

That's what London has been for quite some time. You own a house, you earn 100k plus, but you're definitely not 'rich'. You have a 'middle class' life. You own assets over one million but one million these days is peanuts.

Money is being devalued faster than you can earn it or save it. It's a transfer or wealth to the rich.

I'm a 1% but we need a revolution. What is going on is not fair. We will leave because UK offers no hope. Which is sad. We need something/someone truly radical.

Quite. I had a friend who was president of the Socialist Worker Society at Uni, he didn't see the irony when he got a job in corporate tax when he graduated. .

All of that inculdes pension, higher education, etc too though. Leave if you want, I'm not sure whether you intended this to be a "Oh OP please don't go" type post.

I don’t believe “The West is in decline” at all. Most people have considerably better standards of living than their parents generation. It’s just that people ignore the obvious signs of improvement and focus on the negative because that’s what sells papers.

I find it hard to believe you are such a successful, high earner yet you can’t understand what the report from the ASI is actually measuring. They’ve included everyone who works for in the public sector and HE institutes (and HE students). Who else are you suggesting pays for teachers, doctors, emergency services,the civil service, etc if not the government? The 52% statistic includes those people, many of whom will be high earners, without any calculation of their net contribution, simply because their job relies upon the government to pay them. It’s completely misleading.

Yes so just to take the OP’s example of the US - yes she may pay less tax, but poverty is deeper and wider spread and you have to be seriously wealthy to be completely insulated from that. Private jet wealthy.

Take San Francisco, an economic hub and home to some of the wealthiest people in the US. But there are actual shanty towns that take up whole areas of town, and extremely mentally unstable people wander the streets to a degree not seen anywhere in the UK. That’s got to affect your quality of life even as a high earner.

😂